Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[Argantaelle]

I've brought one more example of the "unholy triangle," composed of the cheekbones and philtrum. This time it's a male Viera.

Behold the philtrum in all its greatness! (no spoilers)

Also, I'd like to add that if a person doesn't post on forums, it doesn't mean they are content with their characters. They can be just shy, or don't like typing, or have no time to provide detailed feedback, or just don't know English well enough. Like this male Viera player, who sent me the two screenshots I've shown in this post.

[Turnintino]

I couldn't help but notice how faded/barely visible your eyebrows are...granted they were pretty light in the Pre-DT, but I could tell it's there

Eyebrows have really been all over the place, both in terms of color and in shape. Respectfully to the artists, but I just don't believe due diligence was given, especially in regards to how certain colors look on certain skin tones; an issue that seemed much less egregious to me before the DT update.

Apart from Birdbrain's character, where you can see his eyebrows all but disappeared, I was just going through SB on an alt, and like a damn beacon in the dark, I instantly noticed M'rahz Nunh's eyebrows look like they're practically glowing lol.



Easily twice as saturated as his hair color, even setting aside the darker highlights he has. His beard is a little off as well, but not nearly so starkly as the brows, IMO.

And this is just the tip of the iceberg, as we've seen.

[Len_]

I wonder what happened to the people that posted early on in the thread when DT first launched. Have you guys gotten used to the changes or has the graphics update just demotivated you from logging in whatsoever?
I ask because it looks like a lot of people didn't fanta into something else despite their grievances. Not trying to antagonize or belittle anyone; disliking the update is totally valid. Just curious where you all stand 2 months later.

I canceled my DT pre-order when the first benchmark came out. Since it released, I created a glam that entirely covered my character's face and I have logged in probably less than 15 times since DT launched. I've done the events and got the pvp series reward. I don't ever stay logged in long. If I happen to have to change glams and catch a glimpse of my character's face it makes me want to turn off the game lol. In fact the only reason I'm back is for the Rising event and the fact that I saw my long time OTP in this game got actual content for the first time in years. It honestly felt like bait directed specifically at me to get me to log in lmao but that's' neither here nor there. I don't feel like I'm missing out not playing Dawntrail. I've been replaying the Dragon Age series anticipating the new game instead.

And I just wanna make a comment about the "dead eyes" thing. I really think so much of the eyes looking lifeless and dead is due to the lack of definition of the pupil. It seems like the iris textures for certain color eyes are more darkened in the middle. And shadowing over the top of the actual eyeball further obscuring the definition. It gives the illusion that the pupils are more dilated than they are which as you know, can make someone look dazed, unfocused, intoxicated, etc. When I look at a lot of these characters that's what I'm seeing personally. I feel like it affects my character too.

[lunartears]

And I just wanna make a comment about the "dead eyes" thing. I really think so much of the eyes looking lifeless and dead is due to the lack of definition of the pupil. It seems like the iris textures for certain color eyes are more darkened in the middle. And shadowing over the top of the actual eyeball further obscuring the definition. It gives the illusion that the pupils are more dilated than they are which as you know, can make someone look dazed, unfocused, intoxicated, etc. When I look at a lot of these characters that's what I'm seeing personally. I feel like it affects my character too.

I've felt the illusion of dilated eyes on other races, but on Female Au Ra they did dilate the pupil. I've also compared the eye textures.



The conscious decision to make Female Au Ra have larger pupils, when before they were small (which was a key component of their appearance and was represented in official illustrations) just makes absolutely no sense to me.
I don't know if this was maybe an attempt at cuteifying them, but it looks disturbing on my WoL.

Believe me, I've got feelings about the other races eye changes too (my alts are a Lalafell and Viera, both of which have lost their look to some extent because of the new eyes) but I can't stop fixating on what they did to Au Ra.

i honestly liked the borderline glowing iris when using brighter colour options, and the way theyve been toned down makes characters that used to have it feel almost lifeless.

Your entire post is similar to my own thoughts (especially the part about art/stylization over realism) but this part has been something I've been bothered by with the new eyes.
I haven't said much about it because it's really difficult to explain (and usually only prominent on Au Ra / Miqo'te), but I used to see this on my character in 6.5 and I really liked it. The new eyes "split" the colour in a way where it looks very saturated as opposed to a mix of different tones with the center having the glow.
I'm also unhappy with how eyes appear in the dark now but that's something I find impossible to describe without looking crazy. Sorry if I misunderstood your post at all.

[Cheapshot]

I'm back is for the Rising event and the fact that I saw my long time OTP in this game got actual content for the first time in years. It honestly felt like bait directed specifically at me to get me to log in lmao but that's' neither here nor there.

Hah I know what you mean. It’s just a coincidence, but on the day I was going to quit last month I was wrapping up all my affairs. Writing letters to my friends and collecting stuff like retainers and whatnot. I was headed to the housing plot I entered the lottery for to get my deposit back as usual and thought “wouldn’t it just be so typical if I finally won the housing lottery for a small plot after trying and failing endlessly to get a house for more than 5 years?” Like any other point before the dawntrail benchmark I would have shot through the ceiling with joy and excitement to win, but always always lost, to botters before the lotto and to rng after it. Like it would be too ironic to win on my last day right?

So of course I finally won it. I finally won a home for my character after years, but my character isn’t my character anymore. Now I can’t just let my account go dormant while I wait to see if they improve things, or else I lose the house I’ve been trying to get forever. Just miserable.

[poooman]

I haven't said much about it because it's really difficult to explain (and usually only prominent on Au Ra / Miqo'te), but I used to see this on my character in 6.5 and I really liked it. The new eyes "split" the colour in a way where it looks very saturated as opposed to a mix of different tones with the center having the glow.
I'm also unhappy with how eyes appear in the dark now but that's something I find impossible to describe without looking crazy. Sorry if I misunderstood your post at all.

i think i understand what you mean? the contrast on the texture feels much higher, with darker darks and brighter brights. this ends up making it feel like the ONLY place the colour shows up is in that bottom ring under the pupil, rather than it being the entire thing. while, yes a very minimal change in the grand scheme of things, clearly it makes a big enough difference for people to notice. my main has very dark red eyes, and before the update i could see that hint of red in most lighting, but now its like theyre pure black unless the sun is right in his eyes...
sunseeker eyes feel like the easiest to notice the difference on, maybe because the bright eyes were very fitting for their theme, and letting the thinner pupil shine. but i definitely see it.

i also definitely agree with the eyes looking off in darker lightings. sometimes they just look glossy in a way that also ends up cloudy? if this makes any sense. again, i use a very dark eye colour, so its VERY obvious when there's this weird... film looking thing overlaid on the eyes. its like he's always about to cry or something. i find hrothgar eyes specifically can look really weird because of this sometimes, since you basically cant see the whites of their eyes.

imo its better to have eyes that pop out a bit more, because the average player probably isnt 2ft from their characters face at all times. but you would still want to see the eye colour you picked i think. i don't know, though, i'm just spitballing my thoughts now LOL

[Iscah]

lSo of course I finally won it. I finally won a home for my character after years, but my character isn’t my character anymore. Now I can’t just let my account go dormant while I wait to see if they improve things, or else I lose the house I’ve been trying to get forever. Just miserable.

You can still go semi-dormant. Let your sub lapse, enter the house on the last day so the timer is reset, stay unsubbed for 40+ days and come back for one month. Repeat until the devs have good news for us.

[lunartears]

i think i understand what you mean? the contrast on the texture feels much higher, with darker darks and brighter brights. this ends up making it feel like the ONLY place the colour shows up is in that bottom ring under the pupil, rather than it being the entire thing. while, yes a very minimal change in the grand scheme of things, clearly it makes a big enough difference for people to notice. my main has very dark red eyes, and before the update i could see that hint of red in most lighting, but now its like theyre pure black unless the sun is right in his eyes...
sunseeker eyes feel like the easiest to notice the difference on, maybe because the bright eyes were very fitting for their theme, and letting the thinner pupil shine. but i definitely see it.

i also definitely agree with the eyes looking off in darker lightings. sometimes they just look glossy in a way that also ends up cloudy? if this makes any sense. again, i use a very dark eye colour, so its VERY obvious when there's this weird... film looking thing overlaid on the eyes. its like he's always about to cry or something. i find hrothgar eyes specifically can look really weird because of this sometimes, since you basically cant see the whites of their eyes.

Ah yeah, contrast is the word I meant. I've also noticed that darker colours look too dark now (I'd also say the same is going on with bright shades being too bright), and while this goes outside of the topic of lighting - the entire palette being made different has made all kinds of shades look weird now. Even if it's slightly off like in my case, it's frustrating. You can't even try to achieve the same options as before because the settings are so limited to begin with.

A lot of my gripes with the dark relate to how I preferred the way the eyes would be "lit" in the dark before but I'm not gonna embarrass myself trying to explain it lol

I've noticed the film on the eyes on other characters posted in this thread but not much on my own character (honestly looking for too long at those giant eyes makes me feel grossed out). My friend's Miqo'te character (also Sunseeker) has a major case of it and it's made worse by the low graphics settings. It's 100% easier to see on races with unconventional eyes (like you said, especially on Sunseeker).

So much of this is a product of homogenization.

[Ashenfall]

I don't like how the eyes are much more heavily dependent on lighting than before on my miqo. Compare the eyes to the old ones, which were heavily dependent on the airbrushed shading of the eye models. The original eyes were actually painted on for a reason, which I theorize is to reduce this sort of dull appearance and to add dimension to the eyes no matter what kind of lighting you're in. I get the point of adding more realistic textures, but I would've preferred the eye texture and rendering to be somewhat closer to Y'Jhimei's eyes from FF15, especially with modern improvements.

For the sclera color, I'm not sure for other races, but I have an old photo of my miqote's sclera from before (pic 1). You can see how much more shading there is on the older eyeball. 6.x looks pretty uncanny, while 7.0 look more like a cartoon character. But if you move your own eye to look at your sclera, you're more likely to see red veins, which was closer to before.
The 7.0 whites have multicolored textures that look like resin/glass eyes or the eyes for wax figures. I would assume it's because the new sclera is much more shiny and reflective, while the old eyes were matte and painted, with enough warm shading to compensate the form. For color theory of eye whites in old paintings and regular photos from afar, they tend to be more warm and dark in color, which makes sense for smaller, human eyes. The lack of shadows in the whites make it seem much more bright than it should.

I agree that the old irises felt more vibrant and almost glowed, and though there was much less shadow before, the shadows were dark enough to show dimension. The new textures for the irises are extremely detailed, to the point where my console renders itself to being more sparkly than it should. The way certain light reflects on the irises looks extremely creepy. The old eyes would not have reacted to the Gridanian market lighting like pic 3.

6.x > 7.0 > 7.0


Now that I think about it, I sort of wish that miqo irises reacted to light (and looked) more like real cat eyes, instead of the way human eyes work with light. Even how the old eyes almost glowed felt more catlike.

[Liamont]

So I finished all of DT and I still am not very happy with the changes to my characters. Besides the eyebrows which I've discussed before in great detail, one thing that really stood out to me throughout DT were the expressions.

For example:

(/eat pizza) Ever since 7.0, elezen male expressions have become way too goofy. There were several moments in DT where he made a similar expression, and it always jarred me out of the story because it looked so silly.

I'm pretty sure the face shape has changed, especially around the eyebrows, which contributes to the odd expressions and the tilt at the end of the eyebrow that wasn't there before. There's a ridge now on the end that wasn't there in 6.0.


(/smile) Whenever he smiled in DT, it looked like fake smile, because he was just tilting the ends of his lips up and not pulling his lips back. I don't have screenshots from 6.0 of his expressions, but it feels like his eyes got a lot more squinty in many of the expressions in 7.0.


(/grin) has just gotten extremely goofy. The eyebrows are pulling up in a strange way, and this problem persists in many of the expressions.


(/content) used to actually look content, now his eyebrows are pulling up weirdly.


(/smirk)


(/taunt) also looks goofy now, also his right eyebrow randomly twitches at the front end.


(/sad) was never a really good looking expression for elezen males but it somehow looks worse now. The eyebrows go into an S shape when previously it looked more like one stroke upwards.


This is especially apparent in (/scared), which for some reason DT liked to use a lot. Needless to say, it just looked incredibly goofy and I wish they would have stopped using this expression so much lol.


They also really liked to use (/amazed), which wouldn't be that bad except for now (/amazed) looks goofier than it did in 6.0...


Once again there is a strange S shape in (/worried), and also his eyebrows are twitching.


There was a moment in DT where he used (/sneer) at what was supposed to be the beginning of a fight...and it kind of made what was supposed to be a cool scene just...awkward. He looked like some weird villain, and I can't say I've ever thought that about my own character lol.