Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[Arzalis]

Since the devs are reading this thread and I've seen the "soulless eyes" feedback pop up again recently, I'd like to say that I strongly disagree with that feedback (which is not to say you shouldn't post it if you agree with that feedback) and I'd wager a lot of people who are pleased with the update and not posting here would say the same.

To me the pre-7.0 eyes are what look soulless by a mile. They look completely vacant and flat, like a lifeless mannequin with a thousand yard stare. One of the best parts of the graphical update has been the massive amount of life that's been breathed into the characters through the eye updates. They have detail, depth, proper shading and lighting, and I love the subtle eye movement that was added as well. I would be very sad to see them go back to the O_O look they were before, so I hope this feedback can be taken into account with whatever path the devs choose to take. Thanks.

I think there was an issue with "soulless eyes" back in the first benchmark, but it was related to how the lighting was interacting with the iris. It looks perfectly fine now. Doubly so in-game because the eyes actually move around quite a lot too.

I think it's important to also state your character's race and character creation parts when saying things like this. You may be right but I don't think it's a true blanket statement for every race/option/maybe even color of eyes/etc.

I'm using a picture I've used before but just because you can see his eye color here, doesn't mean it has more life. I think it's more realistic that you can't always tell someone's eye color unless you're up close. You can see more color here but as a result, it looks completely unfocused and souless. (I know you didn't refer to color specifically but if not that for my example, it's pretty clearly more empty looking.)

Show us the picture in the same or similar lighting, please. Otherwise it's kind of a moot comparison. Also you're showing one picture with reshade and one without.

[noumen0nn]

Since the devs are reading this thread and I've seen the "soulless eyes" feedback pop up again recently, I'd like to say that I strongly disagree with that feedback (which is not to say you shouldn't post it if you agree with that feedback) and I'd wager a lot of people who are pleased with the update and not posting here would say the same.

To me the pre-7.0 eyes are what look soulless by a mile. They look completely vacant and flat, like a lifeless mannequin with a thousand yard stare. One of the best parts of the graphical update has been the massive amount of life that's been breathed into the characters through the eye updates. They have detail, depth, proper shading and lighting, and I love the subtle eye movement that was added as well. I would be very sad to see them go back to the O_O look they were before, so I hope this feedback can be taken into account with whatever path the devs choose to take. Thanks.

While I agree that the totally-pure-white eyes could look out of place in the new graphics, one look at the state of character portraits should be enough to see that eyes look terrible right now. They are dark grey and dead, and need some touching up

[Luluna]

I am happy with some of the update but not some parts. I find the cat eyes look like they have a film over them? I also feel as I have said before they have made midlander females noses and mouths look angry on face 1 and 2. I have managed to make a Hyur I like but do not love, and I have been switching between her and cat.

It takes me back to 1.0 they took away our voices and changed them (Not sure why) but it was not a improvement.

My 1.0 cat did not look great coming to ARR so I switched to a diff face played her for years then discovered I enjoyed being a Midlander so played her the last few years and now I am back having a identity crisis lol. I will add every skin seems to have a horrible beige undertone and also lip colours are dull and beige like.

[Turnintino]

I think this gif of yours really goes to show how confusing some of the choices they made were. They specifically made face 4 M miqo'te have heavier eyeliner/eyelashes as well as bringing the upper lid down over the eye more, which is the exact opposite of what they did to F midlander face 1 where they took away a lot of the eyeliner/lashes and gave the eyes a much wider appearance.

Thicker eyeliner is a facial feature setting for Face 4 that the character in question doesn't appear to be using in the Endwalker screenshot.

Here's a comparison of my character, for clarity:



I agree with Aurumis's conclusion, but to your point, the eyeliner 'facial feature' was not made thicker -- though it was certainly altered in other ways. At least on the eye option I'm using, I appreciate that the additional eyeliner's lumpiness was smoothed (for the most part lol), but that's about all I can say for it.

You can also see the way his profile's been changed in these comparison shots I took previously:



(The annotations are about the shape of the nose and lips. The upper lip, in particular, is now pressed flatter against the face in DT, making it unusually uneven with the lower lip, unlike the previous model. The shape of the nose has lost the feline sleekness it had previously as well.)

And gods, I miss my thicker eyebrows (which is also a facial feature option my character's using in all screenshots).

[Aurumis]

Thicker eyeliner is a facial feature setting for Face 4 that the character in question doesn't appear to be using in the Endwalker screenshot.

Here's a comparison of my character, for clarity:



I agree with Aurumis's conclusion, but to your point, the eyeliner 'facial feature' was not made thicker -- though it was certainly altered in other ways. At least on the eye option I'm using, I appreciate that the additional eyeliner's lumpiness was smoothed (for the most part lol), but that's about all I can say for it.

You can also see the way his profile's been changed in these comparison shots I took previously:



(The annotations are about the shape of the nose and lips. The upper lip, in particular, is now pressed flatter against the face in DT, making it unusually uneven with the lower lip, unlike the previous model. The shape of the nose has lost the feline sleekness it had previously as well.)

And gods, I miss my thicker eyebrows (which is also a facial feature option my character's using in all screenshots).

He is using the thick eyelashes in the old screenshoot one too, it's something I choosed because it made the eye look more feline. But even so, now in DT they changed too much the form of the eyes and how much they closed the eyelids and painted over the iris is still there, obscuring even the SHINE in DT, that little white bubble of shine that only appears when they open the eyes in cutscenes or looking from the character from under. I also had the thicker eyebrows that now are nonexistent no matter if you choose the option or not. It's all a mess. I'm so angry. I don't get how some answers say this is better, they are BLIND.

Also agree on the mouth and nose too (apart that as you can see in endwalker they didn't have that corners up and they added it and looks horrible when you do some emotes, in some cutscenes my miqo'te looked distorted as fuck when smiling sly and challenging and such). But if they fix the eyes, I would be happy...since it's the worst change and the one that make them look dead... Also the color of the iris obscured for no reason too, and the pupil...

[Aurumis]

I wonder what happened to the people that posted early on in the thread when DT first launched. Have you guys gotten used to the changes or has the graphics update just demotivated you from logging in whatsoever?
I ask because it looks like a lot of people didn't fanta into something else despite their grievances. Not trying to antagonize or belittle anyone; disliking the update is totally valid. Just curious where you all stand 2 months later.

I almost don't log in... I don't like the changes but I love my characters and using a fanta is not going to fix anything. The only way to fix it is if they listen to us and see how they fucked up.

[Argantaelle]

Well, until we get an official reply, I think it might be useful to post some feedback yet again (I bet you all got tired of me, haha). This time I want to talk about my Elezen girl.

Face type: 4
Jaw: 1
Eye Shape: 3
Eyebrows: 3
Nose: 4
Mouth: 2
Facial Features: none

EW and DT comparison:

Full-face


Three quarter

Changes:

1. Eyes feel off, maybe because the iris became darker (it can be corrected) or maybe the eye lost its slight squint towards the end. Instead of a mature, intense stare, I've got a young girl with wide-opened eyes. It's not a bad thing per se, and I think I can correct it by putting on some face paint and changing the iris colour.

2. Light eyebrows lost their dark undertone, which helped to make them more prominent. I've already written about this issue.
The eyebrows changed their position, but it can be corrected by choosing another type.

3. What has happened to the poor girl's mouth? Has she been stung by a bee? Why did her mouth all of a sudden get plumpier, and why is the lower lip so thick?

4. Lip gloss. I'd rather have the matte option, please; if I wanted to apply lip gloss, I'd put some colour on her mouth.

5. Cheekbones. The shape of the face has changed; it became more narrow and cheekbones less prominent.


Overall conclusion: not bad. It's not a win in the graphical upgrade lottery, but not a loss either (if the mouth and cheekbones return to their original shape).

P.S.
Male Raen lost their blue tongue:

It used to be much brighter:


The source of the picture:
https://cinnamon-suncat.tumblr.com/p...errycheesecake

P.S.S.
To all the players who keep telling about overreacting and how insignificant it is when "only a few pixels" are changed.

(very minor SB spoilers)

Look at this photo of Alphinaud and Alisaie. They are twins. They have the same face, except for very small changes in eyes and mouth. And these "few pixels" help to tell one twin from another unmistakably, even if they are dressed in the same clothes.

[Turnintino]

He is using the thick eyelashes in the old screenshoot one too

Sorry, I was referring to the GIF they quoted where it seems to be missing in the EW bit. (I probably should've linked to that directly in my response for clarity, but I thought it would be more valuable to link your whole post, since it brings up many points I agree with.)

Also agree on the mouth and nose too (apart that as you can see in endwalker they didn't have that corners up and they added it and looks horrible when you do some emotes, in some cutscenes my miqo'te looked distorted as fuck when smiling sly and challenging and such). But if they fix the eyes, I would be happy...since it's the worst change and the one that make them look dead... Also the color of the iris obscured for no reason too, and the pupil...

Agreed on all counts. During emotes that furrow the brow, the ends of his eyebrows turn up more than they did previously and it looks so strange lol. Sadly, I don't have any 6.x screenshots of what it used to look like (it's probably possible with the old EW benchmark I use, but male miqo'te are so animated that it's difficult to get a good mid-emote screenshot without being able to pause like we can with gpose), but it's something I noticed immediately. The eyes, in general, are so frustrating as well because the slit pupil is so obscured in most lighting now that you can forget they have them, not helped by the males' smaller eyes, compared to their female counterparts.

[lunartears]

I wonder what happened to the people that posted early on in the thread when DT first launched. Have you guys gotten used to the changes or has the graphics update just demotivated you from logging in whatsoever?
I ask because it looks like a lot of people didn't fanta into something else despite their grievances. Not trying to antagonize or belittle anyone; disliking the update is totally valid. Just curious where you all stand 2 months later.

I pushed myself to clear the MSQ so I could keep myself busy, but since clearing it and getting a few jobs to 100, I've only been logging in for my retainers and to keep my estate. The game has felt empty and pointless ever since the character update, I feel a consistent apathy towards all new content (especially if it involves cutscenes).

I originally intended to cover all of my glamours in a mask but I got fed up with how bare my character's head looked from the back while fighting so I stopped bothering to do it outside of crafters/gatherers.
Each time I see my character in a cutscene without a mask on, I immediately mentally sigh and just feel so depressed. Even with time passing, I can't accept how they changed the face. The way the eyes and lips look continue to stick out to me, they still feel very gross to look at.

I could also go on about the changes to scales, the skin and the other things but it isn't going to contribute anything new as I've already stated my thoughts in many posts before. I basically can't unsee what I saw since Benchmark 1.

I haven't used Fantasia because I can't do anything about what was changed. My character means a lot to me and the way she appeared in Endwalker was perfect. Sometimes I launch the Endwalker Benchmark to feel some normality again.

I don't think I can adequately express how rough the past two months have been for me without divulging that I'm autistic and this game is (well... perhaps was) my special interest, and perhaps the stereotypical dislike of change has something to do with my refusal to fantasia. I used to play daily for hours, delving into any and every piece of content I could, racking up hundreds of days of playtime without ever getting burned out in the slightest. And now? It's not the game I fell in love with, that I devoted years to. Now, on days I don't have raid? I don't even log on. And raid days I'm on for the duration of raid and nothing more, no dailies, weeklies or achievement hunting. I haven't found anything to fill the void and occupy the extra time I have on my hands now either, so I have plenty of time to ruminate on why it feels so wrong.

I couldn't help but feel so seen in your post.
Everything you wrote accurately describes how I've been feeling.

[Argantaelle]

I also would like to talk about facial expressions. I used to play a male Au Ra, so all the examples are going to be illustrated with the generous help of my Test Subjects from 1 to 4 (except for the 2nd, because it still pains me to see what has become of the 2nd face). All mouths belong to the 1st type.

The main issue is smiles. They are not that good across most races I've seen during MSQ up to Stormblood. Just look at this lovely fellow and his charming smile:

(NIN 60-70 questline spoilers)

This picture vividly represents what's wrong with smiles: only the corners of the mouth are pulled up, the middle part is unaffected in any way, and it looks very unnatural and just plain weird.

A few examples of smiling expressions of male Au Ra are listed below.

1st face

The first face won the lottery; its smile looks almost normal.

beam


grin

As you can see, the same general problem is present here, even if to a lesser degree.

EW benchmark for the sake of comparison:

It seems like the poor guy with the 3d face didn't get the care and attention he deserves.

smile


Once again, the thin corners of the mouth are pulled up, and it looks not that good; also, the eyes turned into very narrow slits. Other "smiling" face expressions have the same problems, and, to be honest, some of them are just plain scary.

beam


grin


content


scoff


EW benchmark smile:

4th face
I was curious how SE animated non-standard wide mouth, and I wasn't disappointed!

smile

Oh my. I have no words.

beam


content


Maybe it's just the first-mouth type? Maybe a smaller mouth will look more natural? Not a chance!

content, mouth type 4:


grin (once again the 1st type)


scoff


sneer


EW benchmark smile:

It looks so much better.