In Favor of DPS Kits

[Ramiee]

I mean they did add more self-sustain/mitigation for dps and tanks that made the lack of healing worse.

But yeah the lv92 skills just don't do anything with the role's empty filler phases.

Healers more or less have 2 kinds of bursts, a dps burst like all other roles, and a healing burst, which either come at scripted moments, or when mistakes are made by party members, and these bursts themselves feel fine to do. There's nothing to do inbetween and there's so much of that.

Yeah adding healing to MNK, SMN and PCT was very dumb. RPRs regen was already pretty powerful and now pretty much most DPS gained healing. The upgraded Tank defensives were also real dumb, the only one that was good was DRK but thats because it had a self heal locked behind a 2 minute CD which is very reasonable for a tank compared to WAR.

[Silver-Strider]

Yeah adding healing to MNK, SMN and PCT was very dumb. RPRs regen was already pretty powerful and now pretty much most DPS gained healing. The upgraded Tank defensives were also real dumb, the only one that was good was DRK but thats because it had a self heal locked behind a 2 minute CD which is very reasonable for a tank compared to WAR.

I'm still questioning why they gave a heal to MNK, especially after SE went out of their way to nerf Mantra last expansion

[Shurrikhan]

I'm still questioning why they gave a heal to MNK, especially after SE went out of their way to nerf Mantra last expansion

Honestly, 90% chance it was just because they needed the third and final "Reply of <Element>" and didn't want it to add damage directly or add what would more thematically belong to Wind or Fire, leaving virtually no other way to add value than to provide sustain. Since a mere Second Wind II would have been complained about, and healer complaints are inherently muted, AoE heal it was.

[Silver-Strider]

Honestly, 90% chance it was just because they needed the third and final "Reply of <Element>" and didn't want it to add damage directly or add what would more thematically belong to Wind or Fire, leaving virtually no other way to add value than to provide sustain. Since a mere Second Wind II would have been complained about, and healer complaints are inherently muted, AoE heal it was.

I think an AoE mitigation effect would've been more thematically appropriate, given the nature of Riddle of Earth being little more than MNK Rampart. but it does begs the question, what will become of BRD? As I recall, part of the justification for Mantra's original nerf was because BRD was underperforming and SE went the route of improving its supportive toolkits rather than a straight damage buff, so they changed Nature's Minne to be an AoE heal buff like Mantra but with a slightly higher % buff. Now that MNK has Earth's Reply, does that mean that BRD will be getting an even stronger AoE heal to follow the selfsame logic of last expansion or will it be left to the wayside?

[Shurrikhan]

I think an AoE mitigation effect would've been more thematically appropriate

Aye, but that would mean you have to be hit by the thing you want to mitigate before you could AoE mitigate, and that mitigation would likewise reduce healing requirements (all while being under higher scrutiny, since it increases max eHP as well).

Now that MNK has Earth's Reply, does that mean that BRD will be getting an even stronger AoE heal to follow the selfsame logic of last expansion or will it be left to the wayside?

Probably the latter. Or perhaps, in response, they'll hear out a complaint or two from a physical ranged job by 8.0 or 9.0. If we're lucky.

[Silver-Strider]

Aye, but that would mean you have to be hit by the thing you want to mitigate before you could AoE mitigate, and that mitigation would likewise reduce healing requirements (all while being under higher scrutiny, since it increases max eHP as well).

They could've gone the route they did with PCT's Tempora Grassa and just make it so you sacrifice a portion of the personal mit to convert it into party mit but I digress.

Probably the latter. Or perhaps, in response, they'll hear out a complaint or two from a physical ranged job by 8.0 or 9.0. If we're lucky.

Listen, it only took them 6-7 years to realize Mantra > Nature's Minne and just by the nature that BRD is a DPS role, they at least have a slightly better chance of being heard before healers lol

[PeridotOlivine]

I would very much like to see moving back towards healers having more damage skills to manage, as someone who was a healer main in heavensward but moved away from it after the simplifications. It's just not a very enjoyable role if the only thing that keeps you from spamming the same one button most of the fight is other people playing poorly and you having to heal them more than usual. I know that the 10 or so damage skills scholar had in heavensward wont be coming back, but even just one more semi-regularly pressed damage skill would go a long way.

[Carighan]

In general I actually love if some DPS and tanks have strong support options, and in fact in particular if some of them have healing options.

But once again, the incoming damage on the raid is so incredibly low in FFXIV, these "flavour" options (in any other MMORPG) end up covering all healing needs. While the big 10-20 ability healing kits of healers go mostly unused, entirely because there's no damage to use them on.

That does not mean we should not get slightly expanded DPS kits. Sure. In particular if they can be made flavourful - say, Astros throwing their drawn cards at enemies Gambit-style! - but we also need a way to actually let healers do what their entire role is meant to do. And that cannot be done on the side of the job, not even by removing healing from other jobs (that'd just be a bandaid, in any case). It has to be done on the encounter side.

[elioaiko]

It's the same song and dance. Healers complaining about not having enough to do and ppl telling us that we should play other roles if we wanna dps.

It's sad when people fail to realize that a healer's contribution is not only managing HP bars, but doing damage as well. Every job is a dps job. Tanks are dps that have defensive CDs and healers are dps that have healing abilities.

At the end of the day, the difference between beating content is whether or not you can balance healing and doing damage.

Every time someone asks for the devs to make us heal more to avoid downtime is so frustrating bc healing isn't just about the frequency at which you have to heal but the depth of what you have to heal. Throwing raidwides back to back while making us do mechanic vomit isn't really that engaging.

The combat design has been striped down to the point that healing is just healing back from single digit numbers. It's why the devs struggle so much to make new abilities that aren't just raw healing.

And then you realize that the devs are way too afraid of making healing difficult bc they want bad players to not feel punished for understanding how a healer works.

Healing will never be more than it is now. The devs have made it clear that they simply do not care bc to them, healing is just a one sided affair.

[Ramiee]

I'm still questioning why they gave a heal to MNK, especially after SE went out of their way to nerf Mantra last expansion

Its because they needed an Earth Reply. Honestly it wouldn't be a problem if it was like old Riddle of Earth where it was a selfish regen, a strong self heal every 2 minutes is pretty reasonable for MNK.