Another rant about S ranks

[Wilford111]

The fact is that pulling an S-rank mob earlier than what the community is used to creates a massive amount of toxicity, which is evidence that SE needs to update the hunt system. I'm a firm believer in "don't hate the player, hate the game". It's true that "early pullers" aren't breaking any rules, but it really, really sucks when they do pull before most people can reasonably arrive.

[LibitIncarne]

The fact is that pulling an S-rank mob earlier than what the community is used to creates a massive amount of toxicity, which is evidence that SE needs to update the hunt system. I'm a firm believer in "don't hate the player, hate the game". It's true that "early pullers" aren't breaking any rules, but it really, really sucks when they do pull before most people can reasonably arrive.

We need more oneshot donuts and far-reaching cleaves centered on the player with the highest aggro.
"Resetting" hunt mobs is often more toxic than the act of "early pulling" is.

[EponaTBHSMH]

The fact is that pulling an S-rank mob earlier than what the community is used to creates a massive amount of toxicity, which is evidence that SE needs to update the hunt system. I'm a firm believer in "don't hate the player, hate the game". It's true that "early pullers" aren't breaking any rules, but it really, really sucks when they do pull before most people can reasonably arrive.

People not waiting a set amount time before pulling an S rank has been making people upset since as far as Heavensward, what do you think is the likelyhood of SE changing this now? What data has changed for them to want to make a decision now?

[LibitIncarne]

People not waiting a set amount time before pulling an S rank has been making people upset since as far as Heavensward, what do you think is the likelyhood of SE changing this now? What data has changed for them to want to make a decision now?

That one Yak Tel S rank on Shadow, if any data can be pointed at.
Players were crashing due to the sheer number of players (2k+) in the instance because they were waiting for everyone to get there.

[Wilford111]

People not waiting a set amount time before pulling an S rank has been making people upset since as far as Heavensward, what do you think is the likelyhood of SE changing this now? What data has changed for them to want to make a decision now?

Who cares if anything changed? They should have changed it back in Heavensward. If enough people make their voices heard they might just change it.

[Jojoya]

The fact is that pulling an S-rank mob earlier than what the community is used to creates a massive amount of toxicity, which is evidence that SE needs to update the hunt system. I'm a firm believer in "don't hate the player, hate the game". It's true that "early pullers" aren't breaking any rules, but it really, really sucks when they do pull before most people can reasonably arrive.

A hunt being pulled before most have arrived isn't a problem. No one has to be there before it is pulled to get credit. They just need to get a hit in before it dies.

That's why the community should focus on is whether it is dead before most have arrived. The community has some power to prevent that from happening by not assisting those who attack immediately.

I genuinely doubt that most S ranks are dying before most players have arrived outside of the squishier ARR and HW S ranks. There will always be those few who show up too late for whatever reason but most get there in time.

We need more oneshot donuts and far-reaching cleaves centered on the player with the highest aggro.
"Resetting" hunt mobs is often more toxic than the act of "early pulling" is.

Intentionally resetting mobs that have already been pulled is a violation of ToS and has led to player bans when reported.

It's one thing if it was a face pull and those already there are fine with the reset. It's another if some players were intentionally attacking it. Again, the community has the option to not attack if they want to give others more time to arrive.

That one Yak Tel S rank on Shadow, if any data can be pointed at.
Players were crashing due to the sheer number of players (2k+) in the instance because they were waiting for everyone to get there.

Which is a large part of the problem with waiting an excessive amount of time. The more that show up, the more players that start experiencing severe latency/disconnects and the greater the potential to crash the server. There are only so many players a zone is intended to hold at one time before technical chaos steps in.

Who cares if anything changed? They should have changed it back in Heavensward. If enough people make their voices heard they might just change it.

SE didn't change anything in the first place so there was nothing to "change back".

Players have been making complaints about the hunt for years. SE's response has always been the content is what they intend it to be and they have no interest in investing resources to change it. If anything, they're unhappy with how the community tries to run the hunt. They've already said they do not like hunt trains but for now they're content to let the community run them.

If SE does eventually make changes, I doubt very much they're going to be what most are hoping for.

[Wilford111]

SE didn't change anything in the first place so there was nothing to "change back".

Well first off I think you misunderstood what I said I meant they should have changed the system way back in Heavensward if there was a problem, but they didn't. It's never too late, is my point.

Players have been making complaints about the hunt for years. SE's response has always been the content is what they intend it to be and they have no interest in investing resources to change it. If anything, they're unhappy with how the community tries to run the hunt. They've already said they do not like hunt trains but for now they're content to let the community run them.

If SE does eventually make changes, I doubt very much they're going to be what most are hoping for.

I just don't understand SE's logic. Their design philosophy in all of their other content has been to make the game feel more like you're working together with players, not against them (obvious exception being pvp). With S-Rank hunts, it feels like another pvp. And those with mods have a major advantage over those that don't. This is a glaring issue and there's no way you can convince me that it isn't.

[LibitIncarne]

With S-Rank hunts, it feels like another pvp. And those with mods have a major advantage over those that don't. This is a glaring issue and there's no way you can convince me that it isn't.

This is the case for literally every piece of content (yes, even ERP) in the game, including PvP.
Be thankful that players can share the open-source information with you through linkshells rather than hoarding the knowledge to themselves like Faloop does. Sonar is essentially just one big CWLS hunt relay and the only reason to get mad at it is if you aren't in a hunt CWLS or you're a Faloop Admin.

[Wilford111]

(we also know their gray area stance on those)

3rd party mods are not a gray area and they never have been.

Be thankful that players can share the open-source information with you through linkshells rather than hoarding the knowledge to themselves like Faloop does.

The reason why this content is so contentious is because people use their 3rd party mod information to world transfer earlier than anyone else, making them have an advantage. Then they go and pull the S-rank before anyone else can possibly arrive, making this content extremely frustrating for console players and those that want to follow TOS.

[EponaTBHSMH]

I just don't understand SE's logic. Their design philosophy in all of their other content has been to make the game feel more like you're working together with players, not against them (obvious exception being pvp). With S-Rank hunts, it feels like another pvp. And those with mods have a major advantage over those that don't. This is a glaring issue and there's no way you can convince me that it isn't.

SE's logic is no secret, it's always been kill on sight for hunt unlike the other content you are mentioning, they leave the teamwork up to the community

Thats why S rank pull time hasn't been an issue to them, whether 3rd party tools are involved or not, and regardless of the improvement of said 3rd party tools over the years (we also know their gray area stance on those)

It's also why they're cringing at trains cuz A Ranks really did use to be also called out in linkshells and killed on sight a long time ago, and they would rather it stays that way, but the community has decided to handle them differently