Yoshi P - Your next live letter, DT msq and the damage to the brand

[Striker44]

Any dt damage is of course highly relevant, as it's immediate - affecting present and future.
That damage doesn't have to be perfectly mirrored in subscription losses. Once again, it just has to be noticeable and in today's globe spanning multi-forums environment that is enough.

I would disagree on every front. The % of players who give the slightest rat's behind about whatever the heck "globe spanning multi-forums" means is a proverbial grain of sand on a huge beach. Though, if you actually want to look at the entirety of the internet, you'd have to include all of the places that absolutely dwarf forums like this in population and which overwhelmingly have enjoyed DT. It's also not the .0 MSQ that does practically anything for long-term retention; it's the repeatable content (e.g. Raids) that matters there, and even those "globe spanning forums" that try to pan the MSQ like the Raids. Remember how this forum trashed the EW MSQ? And then DT came out with the highest pre-sales ever, and that was without the "WoW exodus" inflating it.

I would guess SE's behavior would be what it always is - analyzing all of the data, not just those screeching the loudest, recognize that the game is still in a great place, and proceed accordingly.

Honestly, I hope YoshiP takes time and reflect on this I feel that they should announce a delay on story content and just release the non-story content I hope they take criticism to heart, and I hope YoshiP does in all actual fact show SE that if they push a certain way in his game, they will lose their flagship.

The way they could push that would truly hurt this game would be to listen to that certain vocal screeching few who aren't FF's intended audience, anyway. Get outside this forum and look around. I recommend YT. For every comment here trashing DT and getting 50 or so "upvotes," there will be one on YT praising the story and getting hundreds of upvotes. Delaying story they've already written to cater to a certain group would be a terrible idea.

But now Square Enix stocks are crashing.

SE is a huge company that has well-publicized issues in its other departments. FFXIV is one of the things keeping SE afloat, as you even mention later in your comment.

Steam concurrent player-count, a very flawed metric but the only active player count metric we have, is down 16% in 30 days.

That means absolutely nothing, and not just because it's "Steam data." You're noting the natural cycle that every MMO experiences every expansion (and patch within said expansions). There is a sizable chunk of people who play MMO's as stand-alone games, not recurring subscriptions. If you do all of the content available at launch (MSQ, side quests, role quests, etc.), there's typically about 50-60 hours of content there. People will buy the xpac and a 1-month subscription to play through that content, and then move on to other games. There will always be a "drop" in activity after that first month because those people have no interest in the "long-term" aspects of MMO's and are just playing for the new stand-alone content. What I'm actually seeing in-game is new people galore, end-game Hunt trains so large they're lagging zones, etc.. The game is in an extremely healthy place right now.

Dawntrail is the first expansion where from the forums, to the shout chat, from the US to Japan, everyone is unhappy. It is the worst recieved expansion for FF14 ever created, by user reviews and metacritic, and it shows.

Umm...what? The forums have trashed every expansion when it's new. Look at how highly rated EW is on those critic scores, and compare it to what was said around here. And shout chat? In game, what I've seen is a ton of people enjoying themselves. The "user reviews" are also relatively worthless, because the specific segment of the population that tends to spend time actually doing those things is also the segment that's not the intended audience here. I'll make my prediction right now that when the next expansion comes out, DT will suddenly be the "good old days" and whatever the new one is will be the "worst thing ever."

If FF14 dies here, Square Enix ends as a company inside of a year. So yeah, I think we may see Yoshi get in front of the bullet. I don't think we'll hear why this happened or anything, but I think there's a good chance they panic and try to stop the hemoraging cash. But even now that may be fantastical to think, which may in itself be part of the problem.

It's "fantastical to think" and "part of the problem" because it's absolutely delusional. FFXIV is in excellent shape despite what the screeching few want people to think. The sky isn't falling, just like it wasn't falling in every single past expansion when people channeled Chicken Little.

[Nitelancer]

Games done. They won’t do anything different than they did before. It’s all downhill from here. Just gonna milk the players as it slowly declines.

[Sivante]

Ahhhh, hello there Striker. I guess this it is, this is where I peak: Striker replied to me on the forums.

I would disagree on every front.

I recommend YT.

YT. Where people tiptoe around negative commentary for fear of not being invited to the media tours and 'making it.' I'll listen to players over the social media, but thank you.

There will always be a "drop" in activity after that first month because those people have no interest in the "long-term" [...] The game is in an extremely healthy place right now.

I said that, the drop bit. Re-read the post. And, what you're seeing is only as relevant as what everyone else is seeing, as what I'm seeing. That's anecdotal. We can happily disagree here: time will tell.

The forums have trashed every expansion when it's new. Look at how highly rated EW is on those critic scores, and compare it to what was said around here. And shout chat? In game, what I've seen is a ton of people enjoying themselves. The "user reviews" are also relatively worthless, because the specific segment of the population that tends to spend time actually doing those things is also the segment that's not the intended audience here.

Every expansion is indeed, criticized here: but not to the extent DT has been, with the vitriol, fire, or disappointment that DT has been: If anyone doesn't believe me, go check: They are public posts. As for user reviews being relatively worthless, sure? But the 'official' reviews are undependable as they can be bought and influenced, so now we're in a place where reviews don't count at all. We'll ignore the peoples feedback, ignore company feedback, and fly in the dark. That sounds super.

Fact of the matter is regardless of how either of us feel about user feedback, Endwalker sat an 8.8 User review with 2051 reviews, DT is sitting 6.2 with 1191. You ignore user reviews at your own peril: they are the people who buy the product, not the companies.

[Edit addition due to char limit:]

It's "fantastical to think" and "part of the problem" because it's absolutely delusional. FFXIV is in excellent shape despite what the screeching few want people to think.

Not sure what fantastical or problem is quoting? Anyway, if you think FFXIV is in excellent shape then why are you in this thread? Why are you defending something that doesn't need defense? Your presence in this thread makes me question the voracity of that claim, unless you're just here to be generally antagonistic to a discussion you otherwise don't agree with, which is rather damning.

I think you're here because you have the suspicion this is a problem too. I think you're defending FF14 because you love it and can't stand to see people talking about what you'd rather invest energy into desperately trying to ignore.

FF14 runs on a 13 year old engine. It's mechanics, graphics, and design have to be peak to compare with the new releases and competitors, and they are in a hard place. It's not hard to see that, and I respect it. But that doesn't prevent me from being critical when they mistep. DT was, to me and many others, a mistep. Whether you agree or not is not relevant: there's enough of us that share the concern.

[Kohl]

That's not damage, that's just divisive opinions, and the MSQ isn't the only measure of an expansion. Endwalker had a good story, and it was to me the worst expansion contentwise. I almost didn't get Dawntrail because I thought we would have more of the same. Did people look back at Stormblood and Lyse and say "will Yoshi-P please address the irreparable damage this expansion has given the FF brand?"

Like I'm having a blast playing through Dawntrail, especially looking forward the raid scene next month.

100%

I've have no gripes. Shadowbringers and Heavensward are my faves. But I don't dislike any of the post ARR expacs.

[Kohl]

This is such an absurd post it's hard to even like fully comprehend that a serious person is actually saying this stuff.

They put out 10 years of bangers, start a new story from scratch, and y'all can't even let them get past the opener before calling it a failure.

I think you all live in a little bubble where you actually believe everyone around you hated it or something. Grow up.

100<10char>%

[Rayplicant]

This is such an absurd post it's hard to even like fully comprehend that a serious person is actually saying this stuff.

They put out 10 years of bangers, start a new story from scratch, and y'all can't even let them get past the opener before calling it a failure.

I think you all live in a little bubble where you actually believe everyone around you hated it or something. Grow up.

^ This TBH. Thread could have ended after this reply haha

[Teraluna]

^ This TBH. Thread could have ended after this reply haha

If what you believe is true, the next live letter will just be a carry on as you are episode.
I feel it will be somewhat different.

SE's response to dt will tell one way or the other.

[Bananarama]

You could say that from literally ANY expansion, even Shadowbringers. People praise the stories of other expansions as if they are the newest best narrative ever made, and they forget the same criticism they apply on Dawntrail also existed in the previous expansions. The way the MSQ tried to force down my throat, in Shadowbringers, that I should care and feel bad about Emet-Selch and the Ascians is something that will always bother me in this narrative. They forced the general views on many people to the point I felt such lack of immersion that ever since .1 of Shadowbringers, I hardly could relate with my WoL at all UNTIL Dawntrail as you reach Heritage Found and start to genuinely be bothered by all that's happening.

I gotta agree here. Maybe the game's story isn't for me, but for most of the game outside of 3.X and parts of 4.X, I couldn't bring myself to be in line with how the game seems to want my character to feel.
The most recent thing was the point where Wuk Lamat is all like "Call me Llama tea!" and I said nothing and crossed my arms, only for another NPC to make sure she knows I WANT to call her that. Little nitpick, but it keeps FF14 from sticking out to me for its "super amazing" story. It's like it's maximized for "engagement" and discussion among fans, and people who aren't terribly into it are just along for the ride.

[sharknado]

They put out 10 years of bangers, start a new story from scratch, and y'all can't even let them get past the opener before calling it a failure.

People most addicted will see the least problems and any MMO is an addictive relationship that is very hard to break out of. Why are we telling sprouts and potential new players that "it gets good after ARR" instead of spreading only hearts and Moogles about everything in the game? Why are we supposed to take as fact that DT is some mythical stepping stone for the next 10 years? Just because messianic YoshiP said so? Or maybe each game has its flaws and this one isn't different and DT failed at one aspect of the game?

The game since Shadowbringers is releasing expansions based on a very strict template that has very little content in it and became very regressive due to following that template. FF14 tries to glue everything together with the story - you see your favorite characters, you see some cool cutscenes and now you are hyped to farm yet another grip gel or a raid/trial just because "it's cool". When the story isn't the best there is no hype and engagement and people will see more negative aspects of the game and complain more or just unsub quicker until some subsequent patch. We even have "plot watchers" that don't stay subbed for the expansion as a whole. MMO with 1-2 month players every 2 years.

The next patches and expansions will have Bun Bun, Bakool Ja Ja, and Honey because that will resonate with most players and give most sales on re-subs and sales of the next expansion. They will quickly opt out of Wuk and they will triple-check the next expansion MSQ. DT expansion zones will be left out like any previous expansion zones and suddenly it will turn out DT wasn't anything "special" for the next 10 years, just yet another expansion with its bees and cats. They know how to sell fan service and they will. They did admit to previous failures, they even nuked one and they will admit to current or future ones if they happen.

And we still don't know if the DT grind content/zone will be any good/"worth it" so get ready for that too

[Zolvolt]

Simple question, what actions will the team announce at the next live letter to try and repair the DT story writing?

Replacing one person as the msq writer isn't the complete answer by any means. The whole team must have reviewed, discussed and finally approved this msq over a lengthy period as a good enough product for the playerbase.

So, what next Yoshi P? Carry on as we are or announce revisions?

The next live letter will be very interesting.

MSQ doesn't need any revisions. heres a challenge for this unhinged community: try not thinking everything that slightly ruffles your feather is the worst thing ever.

I'd also like to add that the people most addicted to this game are the ones who get too lost in the sauce and end up finding problems where there really aren't any or end up making mountains out of lalafell hills