M4S has officially been beaten without healers in week 2

[Jojoya]

Idk I always felt the purpose of the extra utility brought by other jobs like heals and rez's was less about making healers less important but to offer a means where if the healer dies it is GG.

Yet it has gone overboard to the point that tanks no longer need healers at all, and they don't need damage dealers unless there is a DPS check to beat that tank DPS can't handle.

If a tank dies, the healer has the ability to resurrect the tank quickly (if they haven't just used their Swiftcast), tank can provoke as soon as they're up and wipe is averted.

If a damage dealer dies, the healer has the ability to resurrect them quickly to contribute to any DPS check the party needs to pass to avoid a wipe.

If a healer dies, who is there to resurrect the healer? Either the party has RDM or SMN, or the healer remains dead.

The answer isn't to give other roles multiple tools to handle healing and mitigation. The answer is to give the other roles a tool to resurrect the healer so they can perform their role just as the healer is able to resurrect the other roles so they can do theirs.

That's not to say that the other roles should have no tools for healing and mitigation. But those tools should be rare with moderate length recast time (90-120 seconds) and should apply to self only (outside of tanks getting a party wide mitigation tool to use, which would be appropriate for their role).

The utility that damage dealers get should be related to dealing damage. Increase the damage done by self and party members. Debuff the boss to reduce their damage dealt and/or increase damage taken. I'm old school enough I would love to see crowd control make a comeback for some boss fights and having damage dealers responsible for that.

The job design team needs to step back and remember the point of each role in the trinity. Tanks generate enmity so the majority of incoming damage is directed at them, then mitigate the damage received so they can survive long enough to get needed healing from healers. Damage dealers deal damage to all enemies while doing their best to avoid avoidable damage. They likewise should be relying on healers to handle unavoidable damage plus any additional damage taken due to errors.

If they're going to keep giving a single role more and more tools then design encounters so the other roles are only relevant to speed of kill and not to success, then they need to get rid of the trinity entirely and give all jobs the same general tools with the same overall potency/power as those that tanks are being given.

[Bobby66]

SNIP

Overall while I agree, I am not holding my breath but I do agree. That being said, I would argue that the access to so many rez options while in combat has done more to trivialize content and would rather they just got rid of them from every class that is not a healer and limit it to something like a 10 min cooldown on healer while in combat.

We have already seen what happens when they give roles skills that impact the group that appear to have minimal impact players will just ignore them altogether. To a degree that is what lead SE removing any semblance of aggro management players would not use their aggro dumps, so they shifted from making aggro a group effort into solely the tanks effort.

Even when it comes to CC, if we are being honest only reason we used hard CC like sheep or traps back in the day was because we were bad at the games. Even in classic WoW content were we would use traps largely just boiled down to let is unga bunga it stacks AoE and burn it down if we need to control we will use soft cc like slows and stuff.

For what it is worth and I know people dislike this take but I do think FFXIV is just going down a more causal path that may no longer cater to players that want to be engaged with the content outside of prog.

Edit: This largely boils down to two mindsets. One do you feel it should not be possible to map something out to the point where certain roles it was balanced for are no longer need. IE: 2 tanks 2 healers 4 dps or do you feel that it is okay for people to push the boundaries as to what is possible as so long it does not replace the standard that the content is balanced around.

Personally I do not see much an issue cause overall for most players a healer will always be preferred and needed to clear content. Now I do agree it would be nice to have fun with my role outside of prog and people playing poorly but alas I do not see SE changing that up anytime soon.