M4S has officially been beaten without healers in week 2

[Connor]

As a PS5 player with absolutely no knowledge of the forbidden art of ‘plugins’, I’m curious how it ‘tells’ them what to do. Like do they learn the timeline of the fight and plug in the details so it does an alarm on a timer? Does it find some secret details about the fight in the game files or something? Or maybe it’s like a cheat sheet where someone can posts the guidelines?

Idk again as someone with no knowledge of how these works when I hear ‘bot tells you the answers’ I can’t help but think…isn’t that like, extremely bad for raiding? But then I’d assume it can’t literally ‘cheat’ for you

[Striker44]

It is really funny how often im reminded that people have no idea what theyre looking at or are talking about when discussing this stuff. Like people don't even recognise cactbot which literally tells them what to do so they don't even have to remember mechanics this is literally just a group of people who have done this fight once maybe twice and now they have a plugin telling them what to do and with that plugin telling them what to do they can perfectly do mechanics and it shows that if you can perfectly do mechanics you do not need a healer because damage output in this game is determinent not consistent. Hell this happens every single raid tier its just been way faster than usual.

This sounds more like the issue is the (anti-ToS) 3rd party add-on. FFXIV isn't WoW. Its fights aren't designed with the expectation that people are running DBM (or its FFXIV equivalents). I don't see the issue as healers here; I see it as people using tools that should be getting them banned allowing them to do things that aren't supposed to happen. Your typical player not using those tools isn't going to do the mechanics perfectly (i.e. healers under current design are essential when players aren't cheating).

[koko-on-da-forumz]

I don't see the issue as healers here; I see it as people using tools that should be getting them banned allowing them to do things that aren't supposed to happen.

The entire point of bringing up the plugin is that if you need cactbot going, you're not like some high-end super master at the game (or these specific fights). Take it away and do the mechanics right, and it makes no difference except now you could make some argument that these are try-hard super pros.

That's not the case.

[Supersnow845]

This sounds more like the issue is the (anti-ToS) 3rd party add-on. FFXIV isn't WoW. Its fights aren't designed with the expectation that people are running DBM (or its FFXIV equivalents). I don't see the issue as healers here; I see it as people using tools that should be getting them banned allowing them to do things that aren't supposed to happen. Your typical player not using those tools isn't going to do the mechanics perfectly (i.e. healers under current design are essential when players aren't cheating).

I bought up them using cactbot because it shows they arent 8d chess playing players who cleared this without healers, they are basically just your bog standard mid level static players

The TOP healerless clear while it never should have been possible (and I mean mathematically not just fixing the coding of magic number) was at least actually done by what can only be described as world number 1 quality players

This clear is not

[Andevom]

Until "healerless" becomes the meta for content like this, which doesn't seem likely, it probably won't be addressed by the dev team.

[Aravell]

For all the people who say stuff like "average players don't play perfectly", did you know that in high-end content (even when people aren't playing perfectly) just playing at a reasonably competent level, each healer can spend upwards of over 70% of the fight mashing one singular damage dealing button? We also have 2 healers in the party for 8-man content.

If you take those 2 facts together, you can see why the healer role is experiencing high redundancy.

[Ramiee]

This sounds more like the issue is the (anti-ToS) 3rd party add-on. FFXIV isn't WoW. Its fights aren't designed with the expectation that people are running DBM (or its FFXIV equivalents). I don't see the issue as healers here; I see it as people using tools that should be getting them banned allowing them to do things that aren't supposed to happen. Your typical player not using those tools isn't going to do the mechanics perfectly (i.e. healers under current design are essential when players aren't cheating).

The tool was brought up to show:
1. Healers are NOT important. Damage output of a boss is DETERMINENT AND CONSISTENT you don't need healers, you need someone who can heal which tanks and dps can do.
2. You don't need to be good a god tier perfect gamer, you can be someone cheating to easily remove healers. Healers getting removed is common just because most people follow guides doesn't mean this isnt a problem, if people werent such sheep and only followed hector they would learn real quick you can drop 1 or more healers in most encounters week 2. You can also drop Phys range but thats a completely different issue.

Say what you want about ToS but the addons show that the games balance is terrible, if there was no addon there would still be a problem because if you just stay in a static where you learn the encounter you can drop healers because they are useless and uneeded when they shouldn't be.

[Raven2014]

The entire point of bringing up the plugin is that if you need cactbot going, you're not like some high-end super master at the game (or these specific fights). Take it away and do the mechanics right, and it makes no difference except now you could make some argument that these are try-hard super pros.

That's not the case.

I feel like this is just a false assumption. Are you saying just because you're good at something, you won't be using something that make it easier for you?

When I do PF, sometime I make macro to call out stuff like (in/out) or (partner/spread) if I keep seeing people make mistake, so obviously I'm capable of tracking them.

But that doesn't mean I feel much more comfortable whenever I play with static and have a dedicated caller.

[Venks]

Until "healerless" becomes the meta for content like this, which doesn't seem likely, it probably won't be addressed by the dev team.

I think this is right on. As is 99% of Savage parties will always be bringing 2 healers and they will be needed for the clear.

If current Savage was changed to require more healing it would likely be the case that less than 1% of parties would then start to bring 1 healer, while 99% of parties would still be bringing two healers. The problem now being that far less people in the 99% group would be able to get clears because of less margin for error.

[Chiru_Kai]

I'd love to see them try M3S without healers.