Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[Kaziek]

Those dark shadows are messed up normal maps. I made a bug report here:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...e-Elezen-faces

But they closed it as "Insufficient Information". I still do not know why it is insufficient. But SQEX does SQEX things. Maybe it is too difficult for them to fix it.


Cheers

Thank you! This is good information to have, even if SE doesn't act on fixing them.

[lunartears]

///

Sorry, I ended up making this more into my own post so I'll omit the quote.

I have been feeling strongly about both the grin and smile changes, but most of my contempt is because of the lip / mouth changes.
As you mentioned big grin, I used it on a lot of my portraits but it's totally different now and I'm too demotivated to make anything new. I mentioned big grin a few pages back in my definitive feedback post here (ableit from an exaggerated angle).



Regarding teeth, my character looks like she had an entire replacement set of teeth installed that don't quite fit her mouth. The excessive whitening and the diminished lines seperating each tooth don't help either. Also, I've only seen it once or twice but I don't like the new bright red tongue and gums either.

[noumen0nn]

Since CantDecide’s previous post went over most of the feedback I had been wanting to touch on, I want to make a followup post going over some other details that I think are worth pointing out and looking into.

Eyebrows

The default eyebrows (that is, with facial feature 1, which thickens them, unselected) have become much lighter and thinner. The old eyebrows had a natural “gradient” where the hairs thinned out toward the ends and were thicker and closer in the middle. The new eyebrows, by contrast, are unnaturally uniform, with none of the individual hairs overlapping or touching like real eyebrows do; this makes them seem like they were drawn on with pencil.



Viewed from a distance, this gives the impression of the new eyebrows being a drastically lighter shade than the old ones. Additionally, though the eyebrows have technically stayed the same length, the old eyebrows used to fade significantly at the inner ends. The new, uniform thickness creates the illusion that the inner ends are closer together than they used to be.

I believe all of these issues could be solved by adjusting the thickness of individual hairs, and increasing the density of the hairs toward the middle/decreasing density towards the ends, in order to more closely match the original shape.

Eyes

Many users have already documented the changes to the shape of midlander eyes, and how they have become smaller overall.



I want to highlight one effect of this change in particular: Viewed from the side, the eye not only looks significantly smaller, but appears as if it has actually shifted upwards on the face.



This issue is caused by the lower-outer eyelid having been shrunk inward while the upper-outer eyelid was raised, and could be fixed by adjusting the eyes/eyelids to match their original shape and proportions. Following this thread, it seems that many eye shapes that used to have a similar downward curve in the lower eyelid have had it removed, so I wanted to point out just how serious a difference it can make depending on the angle it’s seen from.

Eyeliner/shadow

It’s already been pointed out how midlander’s eyeliner option has gone from dramatic and winged to tame and “natural”, but something I’ve seen talked about less is how it looks with shut eyes. In the old graphics, the makeup colored the entire eyelid black, whereas now it’s only present just above the lashes. Additionally, there is a noticeable “smudge” to the texture of the eyeshadow when the eye shuts now.



(Here's a higher resolution still image for a better visual on the smudge)



(1/4)

[noumen0nn]

Eyebags/Face Shape

I have nothing new to add about the eyebags, but I want to provide another example of how unnatural they look--here they are casting a harsh and distinct shadow, despite the entire face already being in the shade. As other users have pointed out, the eyebags were always a part of the face geometry, so I believe this is likely a normal map issue rather than a geometry one, and could be solved by adjusting the normal map.



Also visible in this gif is the subtle, but noticeable, change to the overall face shape. Her upper cheeks are wider, but her jaw and chin have both shrunken, giving the whole face a rounder look.

Tear Tracks

Many races have had the presence/impression of their tear tracks amplified, and some races that didn’t have tear tracks received them. Midlander face 1 falls somewhere in between: We had tear tracks, but they were much less defined. In addition, the new tear tracks have been raised and angled upward/outward, which contributes to the “swollen” look of face 1. I suspect this is both a geometry issue and a normal map issue. In any case, I believe that tear tracks are now far too prominent across most races.



Nose

Myself and other users have already shown how the nose has become wider and more wedge-shaped, as well as slightly more downturned and flared at the nostrils. I wanted to add another important detail that is contributing to the wider shape: on the old face, the inner cheek overtook the nose just above the nostril, whereas on the new face, the nostril overtakes the cheek. This angle also does a better job at showing how the nostrils have shrunk away from the nose tip, which further contributes to its “swollen” impression.



Philtrum

The issues with Midlander philtrums has been well-established in this thread already, so instead I want to show how it compares to discrepancies in other races between the old and new graphics.



As shown here, Midlander face 1’s philtrum became narrower and more uniform, Au Ra face 2’s philtrum became wider and more cone-shaped, and Miqo’te face 1’s philtrum stayed almost exactly the same (and unlike the other two, wasn’t made deeper). It would be one thing if the shape changes were all in the same direction, but given that the graphics update made these changes (or didn’t) seemingly at random, I think it just means that more care needs to be taken if further adjustments are to be made, to make sure these features match.

(2/4)

[noumen0nn]

Lips

The changes to Midlander face 1’s lips have been well documented, especially regarding the cupid’s bow being a totally different shape and the lower lip being overly round. I wanted to add that the lips look strange from a side profile, with the bottom lip looking as if it’s being sucked in, further contributing to the tense, pouty impression of the lips.



Lip Color

The shape of Midlander lips has changed, as has already been shown in many previous posts. However, I wanted to highlight a further issue with lip color: Lip color no longer covers the entire area of the lip like it used to, inexplicably vanishing at the corners of the mouth. As a result, Midlanders with lip color enabled seem as if they are always pouting. Also worth mentioning, the lip color fades away before reaching the edge of the lips, leaving an awkward pink line around the whole mouth.



This change is especially obvious with any expression that has the mouth open.



Expressions

This is not a midlander-specific issue, but expressions across the board are uncanny right now. Mouths, especially, move in a way that looks like they are being manipulated by invisible strings or hooks, rather than natural muscle movements.

With “smile”, for instance, the corners of the mouth curve up much too sharply, and the expression looks much more tense or forced than it used to.



“Amazed” is particularly egregious, with the bottom teeth somehow sitting above the corners of the mouth. Try to mimic this expression in real life, and you will find that it requires you to tense up your entire lower face and purposefully jut your lower jaw out.



(3/4)

[noumen0nn]

Closing Thoughts

Overall, Midlanders in general are suffering from what I feel is too strong of a focus on “realism”, with aspects such as the intense shadows of the eye bags and tear tracks, or the deep-set philtrum. Not only is this an issue in that these features distract from what should be the standout facial features, like the eyes, but also in that this “realism” looks wildly out of place when standing next to the more stylized faces of other races, like Miqo’te and Au Ra.

This is not the “cumulative” post I was originally planning for, because everything else has already been covered earlier in this thread and I wanted to focus on things that hadn’t been shown as much. But aside from the individual details, it is the overall feeling of Midlander face 1 that has changed.



This was my Warrior of Light. Confident, strong, and adventurous.



So who on earth is this? (Not a fair comparison, but a necessary one)

Some of the changes, like the smaller eyes, I can attribute to error. Others, like the philtrum, lips, and cheek/jaw shape, seem like they were done intentionally out of artistic preference for a more “feminine” face. I can’t say for sure that this is true, but in any case, the fact is that we were promised that the look of our characters would change as little as possible, and I would like any further changes to stick to that promise.

All that said, thank you again for listening and responding to our feedback, and I look forward to your upcoming announcement.

(4/4)

[Adamantini]

(...)

Sorry for not seeing your first post, I haven't been following this topic very often. But from what I noticed in your post, the expression has indeed been altered. I didn't use this expression much for screenshots, so unfortunately, I have nothing to compare it to, but I really don't remember this expression being like this on my character. To me, it seems like the character is forcing a smile while thinking 'please kill me.' And what's worse is that it's not just limited to the big grin, but to any emote where he smiles showing his teeth.

[what-_-]

I definitely felt that the quality has improved since the graphic patch came in this time.

Some races have become beautiful and others have been complemented, but I think the biggest problem is (worst patch) female mikote.

In the case of male mikote, if you don't choose the color of your lips, you can still see the color of your skin. By the way, a woman's micote graphic lips have basic transparent lip gloss. The sparkle of the lips stands out.

I think this is part of misogyny.

There is a big difference between complementing and adding new features.
Some women want lipstick on their faces, while others don't.
If the color selection cannot be further diversified, could you change it back to the previous one?

In addition, the face of the third type of female Mikote has become different. Are women's facial expressions determined by their laughter? I'm scared that the area around my mouth, which wasn't like that at all, is dented and makes me smile.
The third type of face had rougher skin and freckles, but now it has smooth skin and looks more like a doll than a living person.

I feel that this is a patch that treats women like dolls.

It is natural for a person's face to harmonize its shortcomings and strengths. In this patch, my face became unnatural because I tried to leave only the benefits. Please stop making the female character's face look like a doll.
The face enlarged by the in-game examine button is even more strange. The color of your face is too uniform. Obviously it has to be added.

I don't know exactly, but the shape of the nose shadow has changed and the shape looks different.
As the shape and length of the eyelashes become constant, the characteristics disappear, lips become thin, lip lines form, and the area around the mouth is dug deep, and the bottom of the nose is not the patch we wanted.
The user would have welcomed the patch by adding the type, but not this time. It's a shame that the patch was applied that I couldn't even go back to.

The scenery, the light source of the building and the map, and the water-soaked expression are beautiful, but the changes in the character graphics are hard to accept.
I know that even if I expect them to put it back, they won't put anything back. Expectations that users' opinions will be accepted have disappeared without returning the much-criticized PVP content. It's very disappointing to see a one-sided patch that doesn't take user needs into account.

Why don't you combine both the company's and the user's opinions to get better? I also don't want to express my regret for the hard work of the employees.

What is the purpose of the patch?

[MagicMush00]

Closing Thoughts

Overall, Midlanders in general are suffering from what I feel is too strong of a focus on “realism”, with aspects such as the intense shadows of the eye bags and tear tracks, or the deep-set philtrum. Not only is this an issue in that these features distract from what should be the standout facial features, like the eyes, but also in that this “realism” looks wildly out of place when standing next to the more stylized faces of other races, like Miqo’te and Au Ra.

This is not the “cumulative” post I was originally planning for, because everything else has already been covered earlier in this thread and I wanted to focus on things that hadn’t been shown as much. But aside from the individual details, it is the overall feeling of Midlander face 1 that has changed.



This was my Warrior of Light. Confident, strong, and adventurous.



So who on earth is this? (Not a fair comparison, but a necessary one)

Some of the changes, like the smaller eyes, I can attribute to error. Others, like the philtrum, lips, and cheek/jaw shape, seem like they were done intentionally out of artistic preference for a more “feminine” face. I can’t say for sure that this is true, but in any case, the fact is that we were promised that the look of our characters would change as little as possible, and I would like any further changes to stick to that promise.

All that said, thank you again for listening and responding to our feedback, and I look forward to your upcoming announcement.

(4/4)

Thanks for the super complete summary of the issues, i too agree on all you've said, and i think the sad part is how all of this just ends up taking away all the character/personality that the older model had, i also wanna add how much the "shrunk" upper lip affects the overall expression of the face making it look pretty weird, especially when there are lights shining on the character's face from above, which is another problem the pre dt model didn't have.

[Khryseis_Astra]

This is not the “cumulative” post I was originally planning for, because everything else has already been covered earlier in this thread and I wanted to focus on things that hadn’t been shown as much. But aside from the individual details, it is the overall feeling of Midlander face 1 that has changed.

This was my Warrior of Light. Confident, strong, and adventurous.

So who on earth is this? (Not a fair comparison, but a necessary one)

Some of the changes, like the smaller eyes, I can attribute to error. Others, like the philtrum, lips, and cheek/jaw shape, seem like they were done intentionally out of artistic preference for a more “feminine” face. I can’t say for sure that this is true, but in any case, the fact is that we were promised that the look of our characters would change as little as possible, and I would like any further changes to stick to that promise.

Thank you for your detailed post with all the illustrations… you articulated all the issues much better than I could, and hopefully they will take this feedback into account. Both my Midlander and Highlander are suffering from these issues.