M4S has officially been beaten without healers in week 2

[Supersnow845]

So this thread asks for content to be tightened around healers being essential and I am just here thinking maybe be careful of what you wish for.

Yeah how dare a role ask to actually not just be a system enforced burden and actually wants to meaningfully contribute to the raid

[Volgia]

Yeah how dare a role ask to actually not just be a system enforced burden and actually wants to meaningfully contribute to the raid

My reasoning behind saying this is that sometimes we complain about something and the dev team looks at the feedbacks and decides to make it worse. Look at aggro, vipers, etc, so just beware of what you wish for.

[Enjuden]

People acting like this is proof that healer balance is bad. Guys, we already knew that.

I'll be a lot more concerned for the immediate state of game balance when this becomes the standard comp.
People can go on and on about how "easy" it would be to replicate this.
PF is constantly pushing new strats because it's "easy", but why are they not recruiting this comp?
Because taking healers is just easier for your average PF.

Changes need to happen, but as-is people are going to continue using the default comp. You're not seeing world racers run 4 tanks. You're not gonna see people tackling the next Ultimate with no healers during prog.
The case is also a lot different when not having the standard comp causes heavier RNG with mechanics that normally spawn on the missing roles.

We had this happen before with Ramuh Titan egi, and we still drink the kool aid that PF somehow won't try and figure it out when it is significantly faster and easier to do

Surely they will simply sit there and drool this time instead of recreate the Heavensward PF experience that they did before.

Also OP is based for making this thread for popcorn munching

[Coratanni]

Someone cleared all 200 floors of Palace of the dead as a conjurer. A CONJURER.

Just because something is possible, does not mean it's normal.

[Aravell]

I don't think anyone is claiming that doing savage and ultimate without healers is going to become the new normal.

What people are saying is that it's bad design for the current high-end content to be possible to clear with one role of the trinity removed from the party.

The former is easy to argue against while the latter is impossible to argue against, so it seems like people tend to lump all arguments as the former so they can argue against ghosts.

[Isala]

Man, remember the SE that enforced the two tank meta by adding mechanics that required two tanks, because they were tired of us single tanking everything? Where's that design philosophy for healers, when you don't even need one healer?

[Rehayem]

Man, remember the SE that enforced the two tank meta by adding mechanics that required two tanks, because they were tired of us single tanking everything? Where's that design philosophy for healers, when you don't even need one healer?

They're there, given to the tanks. SE is purposely slowly removing the healer role otherwise none of this would've been happening starting Shadowbringers.

[Stanelis]

No healers but 2 paladins, which is close enough.

[Turtledeluxe]

If this situation was reversed and tank was the irrelevant role, both the forums and the dev team would lose sleep from ranting and rushing to fix the problem.

The fact is there's just no energy behind the healer problem from the dev team for whatever reason.

[sharknado]

They aren’t remotely compensating for each other when one of the two just does both roles by itself and the other is inferior in literally every conceivable category

If you get both a good healer and a good tank then the healer role is diminished, but that will usually happen in good pre-made groups and randomly in DF. On average in DF this won't be the case and as the game has a wide range of accepted player behavior/performance it has to be that way. Inception.

Changing this would be rather severe across all of the content. Even increasing savage, ex, and ultimate healing requirements would trickle down to other content having overturned healers that in the end-game content would have to be pure heal bots which still could be perceived as "not fun" / #healerstrike.