Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[Astronis]

We would like to thank everyone for their feedback regarding the graphical update.
The Development team has been carefully reviewing this thread and many others, including bug reports and concerns raised outside of the official forums.

We are currently working on an update based on the feedback provided, as well as preparing to share details about our planned course of action.
As these are undergoing thorough final inspections, we expect to make an announcement in late August.

Thank you all for your patience as we continue fine-tuning the graphical update.

I hope that in all this, "leaving everything alone for the people who are absolutely in love with what is currently in game" is on the table. Because let me be honest--I would not forgive SE if they changed my character at this point.

[Doopliss]

Since I'm a little more awake now and fully prepared to continue appearing as a huge asshole, I wanted to add a general statement: They made a promise to their customers pre-update that they would keep the impressions as close as possible to the original versions.

They have made no such promise about keeping the initial batch of post-update impression differences. In fact, they stated the opposite in the final benchmark update post on the lodestone; they had plans set in motion, since then, to continue making adjustments to the post-update versions of characters. That is another big reason why the situation differs between the two "sides", and, again, why they are attempting to amend it.

The best case scenario would be to add more options. However, I do not blame them for prioritizing corrections first.

That being said, myself and many others do not actually want things outright reverted. We just want our characters to look like themselves and to keep the diversity of options we had before, but with the higher fidelity models.

[Astronis]

Since I'm a little more awake now and fully prepared to continue appearing as a huge asshole, I wanted to add a general statement: They made a promise to their customers pre-update that they would keep the impressions as close as possible to the original versions.

They have made no such promise about keeping the initial batch of post-update impression differences. In fact, they stated the opposite in the final benchmark update post on the lodestone; they had plans set in motion, since then, to continue making adjustments to the post-update versions of characters. That is another big reason why the situation differs between the two "sides", and, again, why they are attempting to amend it.

The best case scenario would be to add more options. However, I do not blame them for prioritizing corrections first.

That being said, myself and many others do not actually want things outright reverted. We just want our characters to look like themselves and to keep the diversity of options we had before, but with the higher fidelity models.

Given that this is a feedback thread, for opinions on the character update, and I have posted several times that I love it, I think it is fair to let SE know that anything that jeopardizes what I vastly, vastly prefer to the original, is worth stating. I would be happy if you were happy. I would be livid if in order to make you happy, what was given to me was taken away. SE needs to know that.

[Doopliss]

Given that this is a feedback thread, for opinions on the character update, and I have posted several times that I love it, I think it is fair to let SE know that anything that jeopardizes what I vastly, vastly prefer to the original, is worth stating. I would be happy if you were happy. I would be livid if in order to make you happy, what was given to me was taken away. SE needs to know that.

Genuinely asking; what are you afraid of them changing about your character?

EDIT: I know I'm often a dickhead here but I promise I don't mean this as a "gotcha". I genuinely do want to understand. Sorry, just felt like clarifying because I know how I can come off.

[Astronis]

Genuinely asking; what are you afraid of them changing about your character?

Honestly, I don't believe they will change anything substantial about my character. But it IS different from the original and there HAVE been complaints about specific points that I prefer in the new version from people who preferred those things in the old version. Most specifically, some weight around the nostrils and how the current version has a bit more thinness around the cheeks that make him look a smidge older than the original. Though if they were being extremely picky about "impressions" from the original, they might do something subtle that would remove the current impression I get from the character that adds some emotion to him that the original lacked all in an effort to return the "impression" back to the original.

And no worries, I took you as being genuine.

ETA: To be clear, I think there are a few things outstanding that still need to be tweaked. Seeing the fiveheads on some NPCs is proof enough of that. But I do fear too much fiddling will take away from the good stuff they've already added, and this isn't the benchmark anymore, this is the live game. That matters.

[Rueby]

Well, alot of people are livid that what their characters used to look like got taken away in favor of changes. My character changed in a way that I really dislike and while I'm sure people love the changes exist, I also would like options to return my character to how she used to be and restore the charming features I loved about her.

I'm sick of the whole 'I'm gonna be happy at your expense' or you're essentially collateral damage to 'change'...I hate the whole idea that this update split people up into two camps, those who love it and don't want to change it and those who hate it and miss their characters.

It doesn't have to be this way...Please push for more options. I loved my character dearly, and the graphical update changed her in ways that I really don't like, the facial expressions are buggy and downright uncanny. I miss her subtle gentle smile. I don't want to take that away from people who love the characters currently. Give us options that are accurate to the original. No one should feel like the character they loved and did the story with is gone. Even those who love the update.

[Doopliss]

Honestly, I don't believe they will change anything substantial about my character. But it IS different from the original and there HAVE been complaints about specific points that I prefer in the new version from people who preferred those things in the old version. Most specifically, some weight around the nostrils and how the current version has a bit more thinness around the cheeks that make him look a smidge older than the original. Though if they were being extremely picky about "impressions" from the original, they might do something subtle that would remove the current impression I get from the character that adds some emotion to him that the original lacked all in an effort to return the "impression" back to the original.

And no worries, I took you as being genuine.

I see...that is understandable, and all in all, I hope that you can still have your character looking a way you like. Since he's a Highlander (Face 2, right?) that means he was originally a 1.0 model--which means his normals were especially rough-looking like my Elezen's--and I would hope they wouldn't revert those. I believe those are what mostly add a lot to the new definition around the cheeks and such.

From what I saw for Face 2, I'd assume most major changes would be some brow bone options that got changed to rest a little too high...and perhaps the lip shape would have more definition returned, like hopefully all races, after getting them "straightened out".

Ideally, I don't want you to be unhappy either. I believe most adjustments (well, I hope, anyway) would be for the more substantially changed options, such as certain eye, nose, and lip shapes becoming far too different from their original counterparts.

Of course, I don't work for SE so I can only hope for the best. Similar to you though, I admittedly like a lot of changes for my Elezen and would be sad to see her return entirely to her "downgrade from 1.x" form. I just want her lips to return to the frowning shape that face was known for, for example, lol, because otherwise the impression remains the same (for my selected options; I know some others with this face weren't so lucky). I also have a lot of problems with how current colors are displayed now, but I consider that a different issue.

Sorry to ramble...I just wanted to say I basically kind of get it, and wanted to be potentially comforting.

Here's hoping they do the real miracle and announce more options in the August announcement.

[Astronis]

Give us options that are accurate to the original. No one should feel like the character they loved and did the story with is gone. Even those who love the update.

Please! Yes! All the options!

I see...that is understandable, and all in all, I hope that you can still have your character looking a way you like. Since he's a Highlander (Face 2, right?) that means he was originally a 1.0 model--which means his normals were especially rough-looking like my Elezen's--and I would hope they wouldn't revert those. I believe those are what mostly add a lot to the new definition around the cheeks and such.

Yes, Face 2 Highlander, and...it's been obvious for years to me that there were things about it that must have been hacked to bits getting it from 1.0 to 2.0, and at least one of those things is something 7.0 has very obviously corrected for me. So yeah, would be very upset to lose that correction!

Ideally, I don't want you to be unhappy either. I believe most adjustments (well, I hope, anyway) would be for the more substantially changed options, such as certain eye, nose, and lip shapes becoming far too different from their original counterparts.

I would hope, yes. It's just this thread is VERY long, and not very many people who are explicitly pleased with the changes post in it. Because that's what happens, happy people stay quiet, unhappy people make noise. So I feel like I have to make a little noise on behalf of the happy people.


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This is my WoL, and this is me stating I AM VERY HAPPY WITH HIM as he exists now!

Sorry to ramble...I just wanted to say I basically kind of get it, and wanted to be potentially comforting.

Here's hoping they do the real miracle and announce more options in the August announcement.

No worries, I appreciate it. Fingers crossed for said miracle.

[Louhikko]

I play mostly midlander Hyur female so my feedback only refers to them.

Personally I think hyur faces look rather old compared to some NPC hyurs when it comes to face shape and proportions and the difference is only more jarring after update.

Things I would fix:

- Make eyes slighly bigger and define the lashes more (they look smaller after update and the inner eyelids also feel too fleshy where it looks like the eyeballs are too sunken in).
- Adjust nose shape, size and length. Face 1 imo the nose is a bit too big but other faces also suffer from noses being too high up, leaving too big of a gap between the mouth and the nose. Face 5, the nose is too "defined" and looks more like botched plastic surgery.
- Smooth out the eyebags (after update hyur suffers from way too puffy lower lid and imo too harsh of a shadow under the eye cast by the nose bridge, making it look like they have dark undereyes)
- Face 5 eyebrows are either too sharp or too straight making the character either look needlessly angry or just permanently sad.
- Face 5 eyes have too defined eyelids both top and bottom creating weird shadows where characters look shell shocked. Other races suffer from same issue but to lesser degree.

Original vs Edit



Imo the female hyur pre update looked like a young healthy woman in her twenties but the new update makes the hyur look somehow older and worn out almost like she's suffering from severe insomnia and lack of skincare (puffy eyelids, heavy shadows around eyes and nose, sometimes even the cheek look swollen).

Ps. The edit below is only to highlight the weird modeling of the eye, not to serve as a shape comparison.

In the current version the whites of the eyes are not covering the proper area of the eye making the eyeballs look too small or sunked in thus making the eyes as a whole look too small and lids too "fleshy".

I know the dev-team wants to avoid changing the characters too much to make sure our characters look as close to original as possible but I feel like older races races especially elezen and hyur suffer from more fundamental problems such as the models themselves just not being very good by anatomical or modern standard. This leaves hyur and elezen looking weird even after update and I would love some actual anatomical fixes to the faces rather than just texture update.

The goal should be less about "not changing the characters look" and more about changing the characters look in a way that brings out and highlights the original features.
(also in case people reading this comment misunderstand, sometimes things that are objectively right can look wrong and things that are wrong can look right. The issue is that they took a character from a simple lighting environment to a more complicated lighting environment but did not change the model enough to cater to the new lighting thus creating even bigger disillusion between us and our characters. While they definitely did change the shape of some features and people are not happy, other times they did not change things enough to account for the new lighting making things look different.)

There are many fantastic NPCs of hyur and elezen that have anatomically correct facial proportions and nice features that we as players do not get.

If the dev team is hesitant to make more radical changes (tho all mentioned are pretty minor) I would also love if we could get new face options overall and would be interested to know if this would be something that could happen in the future since no new races will be made.

[Petroglyph]

Personally I love all the changes. I had no expectations things would be exactly the same, and I think some of the reactions here are kind of extreme when it comes to overanalyzing the neutral faces. It's a refinement and improvement on the style, and some faces that were kinda... bad... before, look decent now. I'm face 3 Au Ra on my main, and it does look pretty different, especially with the options I chose but, within a couple days of just embracing the difference, I got used to it and love how my character looks now. I love how my elezen and my miqo and my lalafel look too! I actually really like my miqo and elezen substantially more after the update; besides the new textures and shaders, I feel like the geometry of the face and the blendshapes are much more pleasing to the eye now. So I would hate for any changes on them to be reversed. :<

Expressions being muted though? 100% the facial expressions are kinda way too mild now—I mean have you seen what some people did with faces? Someone here highlighted adventure plate before and afters that show the expressions were undercooked. Push the expressions further imo. The faces are set up now like full Maya animation rigs (ironically probably developed in Max haha), so I mean come on!

Maybe it would be good to let players opt into a big survey that lets [Squape]nix get a finger on the pulse of how people feel about the update?