Where is fun in 7.05 VPR?

[Wolf_Heartnet]

Fun is subjective to every individual.

Truth. 100% This.

[Morr_Ar]

For me, a large part of fun in games is the frequency with which I get to make a meaningful decision or judgment.

The change to VPR has made the job more rotationally strict, and removed any level of forward planning for a double Reawaken window or needing to disengage from a boss.

Prior to these changes, VPR has scope for optimisation via minimising Dread Fangs usage by monitoring the debuff timer, the time until your next Dreadwinder combo and any forthcoming mechanics that might force a disengage from melee. It was not the most complex mechanic in the world, but it was something that prompted making regular judgments over the course of an encounter and rewarded players for forward planning with increased potency output.

Playing the new version of the job involves making less moment to moment decisions because the buff timers on VPR are generous enough that they will not fall off unless you stop pushing buttons - only NG had a chance to fall off if you weren’t careful, typically during a double Reawaken window.

For me, given that the job is now more so on a fixed rotation, it is less interesting to play and there is less scope for mastery and optimisation. In the context of an MMO where half of the game’s skill expression is learning the encounter and the other half is executing your job at a high level, this is a step in the wrong direction, by bringing the skill ceiling down.

[Naomishtola]

discourse I think is symptomatic of a larger sentiment where people are tired of them dumbing down jobs and the shiny new toy is already getting these changes after only having been out for two months. It sort of just didn't need to be changed-- For things like kaiten you could make the argument where your overall DPS could fluctuate as high as 20% if you didn't crit any of your midares while things like old twin snakes on mnk were actually difficult to optimize. NG wasn't either of those, it wasn't hard or remotely challenging to upkeep, all you had to do was make sure the number was above 30 before you did a double awaken and make sure the number was below 20 before reapplying outside of your burst. It was in no way broken or in need of repair, so why did it need to be "fixed"?

Agreed. It's not like it was hard, I personally found it fun where as the new system just feels like a dumped down version of Monks combo system. NG also gave the buttons a bit more interactivity between each other. You couldn't just spam Dreadwinder when it came off cd but at least had something to micromanage. It gave the job a little bit more flavor and a tiny bit more to keep track of.

This change seems incredibly weird considering no one asked for it. Yet other jobs who have actual problems go unanswered for years? DRK still generates 1.2k less mp per minute, RPR still has issues with gauge negativity, which is especially apparent now with Perfectio, Gunbreaker still has no ways of generating cartridges during downtime, MCH queen and wildfire still are absolutely worthless in aoe situations. I could go on, but these are issues the community has given SE feedback about. Hell some of these have been an issue since the media tour and instead of working on that, they change viper? Which has been out for 4 weeks?

[Lamarcy2699]

I really wonder why everyone is so obsessed with that debuff. If having a debuff to maintain on your target on one of your two side combo is so fun for you you can't play Viper anymore, then, go play dragoon.

The chaotic side of the combo and its DoT to maintain on the target is there for your fun.

It added a level of rush to the job and was something extra to think about. The weaves and reawaken were not the hard bits of viper, uptime was not the hard bit on viper with coils stacks being a thing, gauge was so self explanatory that it does not even need mentioning. Your optimizations were coils stacks management, buff uptime keep and NG uptime. Out of all of them the tightest one was NG uptime. The job, at higher levels of play, feels completely hollow after the changes. People are upset they took something crucial out of the job and made it feel completely flat.

There was also more freedom with NG than there is with DRGs dot and a much higher skill ceiling with it. Telling people to "go play a different job" which is fundamentally different is just an awful look. Even if they were similar, what about statics that already have DRG/VPR? What are you supposed to do then? Your argument falls flat on so many levels it's unbelievable.

[zaya_moya]

I really wonder why everyone is so obsessed with that debuff. If having a debuff to maintain on your target on one of your two side combo is so fun for you you can't play Viper anymore, then, go play dragoon.

The chaotic side of the combo and its DoT to maintain on the target is there for your fun.

VPR debuff is different from RPR and I think DRG (dont remember) because it was part of the rotation and fun to press compared to RPR. In RPR it does little damage, has nothing to do with rotation basically and feels bad.

[RyuuZero]

Do devs even understand what fun is? How 7.05 VPR is fun? HOW? Could you explain to me where the fun is in 7.05 VPR job? WHERE??

I left WoW forever when devs stopped understanding what fun is, I think I am moving in the direction of leaving FF14 forever too.

Where the fun in 7.05 VPR is? I'd say: Glamour

[AvoSturmfaust]

People still dont get it, the Viper changes are good, they open up a lot room for optis and non standard stuff which you hadnt before.

[ovIm]

People still dont get it, the Viper changes are good, they open up a lot room for optis and non standard stuff which you hadnt before.

Please explain what you mean in detail, cause everything I see is that the changes have done the exact opposite. There is less room for optimisation (since there is less stuff to track, and to adjust for in any given fight), and even less non-standard stuff as the rotation has been cut down quite noticeably, forcing it into a very repetitive mold.

[Ramiee]

They had to change it because people realised how bad the weakness dot and enshroud feels on RPR. Now your only option is RPR tee hee.

[Wayfinder3]

Please explain what you mean in detail, cause everything I see is that the changes have done the exact opposite. There is less room for optimisation (since there is less stuff to track, and to adjust for in any given fight), and even less non-standard stuff as the rotation has been cut down quite noticeably, forcing it into a very repetitive mold.

To be honest, this is just a bunch nonsense. You’re not really complaining about any lack of optimizations. The reality is that jobs that have less rigid mechanics to maintain allow for much more Freeform development of their mechanics through an encounter. For example, viper would suffer heavily when trying to burst in an encounter with a lot of significant downtime or where bosses change repeatedly like an ultimate because it would need to continuously reapply this noxious gash and attempt to do a double reawaken combo which ultimately puts it in a position where your desired optimization is actually making the job weaker at its intended function of being a bursty and quick DPS that doesn’t need to prep its burst phases.

You’re complaining because now weaker vipers that struggled to keep the buff up are now closer to you in skill level and so you’re not as special. But the reality is that the rotation became less rigid, not more like you and all the echos on this forum claim. You people just want to complain about everything. If you want to maintain a buff or a dot, go play dragoon and reaper. Go play Samurai if you want to do that while being a pure DPS. This so called thing they robbed you of on viper that have made you all behave so disrespectfully to the devs is hardly as serious as some of the other issues plaguing the job design and is really just another excuse for players to complain about simple jobs. Noxious gash wasn’t Kaiten, stop acting like it was.