Pictomancer is insanely overtuned and needs to be fixed before savage drops.

[Aco505]

This isn't really support by available statistics.
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/62#dpstype=pdps
https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/62#dpstype=ndps

If you do more damage with PCT, could be you're a much better PCT player then a BLM player? Or do you mean AoE damage (so dungeons), then I agree PCT AoE seems a bit overtuned for AoE damage.

This is correct. BLM does more personal damage than PCT and is already surpassing several buffing jobs in the rDPS department. Further buffs would make it overtuned like in EW. It does need fixes on what players still find awful or too rigid about the job such as Thunder and Flare Star though.

On the other hand, VPR is overtuned and topping all metrics. Again, a "selfish" job should not be above buffing jobs rDPS-wise and imho it shouldn't be above SAM aDPS-wise when the latter is meant to be the ultimate 120s burst job.

Finally, on the matter of PCT's burst, perhaps the best solution would be to shift some potency from the burst into the filler.

[Tunda]

«*High level*» =/= «*highest level*»

And he’s not even «*high level*» he just cleared p1s/p2s in EW and Ex1 in DT, as a rpr

it seems that you are obsessed with me lol,

again you can tell your mom how good you are doing 123 complex finisher combo
she will tell you to find a job but ignore it you are good player no questions

[CaedemSanguis]

it seems that you are obsessed with me lol,

again you can tell your mom how good you are doing 123 complex finisher combo
she will tell you to find a job but ignore it you are good player no questions

Just remember you’re a casual, you’re not playing at «*highest level*»

[Tunda]

This is correct. BLM does more personal damage than PCT and is already surpassing several buffing jobs in the rDPS department. Further buffs would make it overtuned like in EW. It does need fixes on what players still find awful or too rigid about the job such as Thunder and Flare Star though.

On the other hand, VPR is overtuned and topping all metrics. Again, a "selfish" job should not be above buffing jobs rDPS-wise and imho it shouldn't be above SAM aDPS-wise when the latter is meant to be the ultimate 120s burst job.

Finally, on the matter of PCT's burst, perhaps the best solution would be to shift some potency from the burst into the filler.

the issue also I found is the weapon

for example EX1 PCT weapon is DH/CRT
but EX1 BLM weapon is DT/DH

It seems off that not all weapons have the same stats.. ofc CRT is superior to other stats

[CaedemSanguis]

This is correct. BLM does more personal damage than PCT and is already surpassing several buffing jobs in the rDPS department. Further buffs would make it overtuned like in EW. It does need fixes on what players still find awful or too rigid about the job such as Thunder and Flare Star though.

On the other hand, VPR is overtuned and topping all metrics. Again, a "selfish" job should not be above buffing jobs rDPS-wise and imho it shouldn't be above SAM aDPS-wise when the latter is meant to be the ultimate 120s burst job.

Finally, on the matter of PCT's burst, perhaps the best solution would be to shift some potency from the burst into the filler.

As I see for savage statistics, balance is «*okay*» as for now

Maybe PCT is very very slightly overtuned (in M3s there is no uptime strat yet for towers, so it will increase the melee dps) ?

Adps wise it’s fine

Also I dont really think that selfish job should deal less rdps than buffing jobs, for SAM vs VIP, SAM dont have a range burst, but VIP have more positionnals to deal with so idk which one should be above between them and BLM

[Aco505]

Also I dont really think that selfish job should deal less rdps than buffing jobs

They cannot deal more rDPS than a buffing job because rDPS is equal to nDPS for a "selfish" job. It's their dummy DPS. It is not healthy for game balance that a "selfish" job can deal more damage attacking a dummy in Urqopacha alone than, let's say, a NIN buffing 7 other players with Dokumori in a buff-abusing comp playing well. And this would be the ideal scenario, imagine a party with less skilled players. The NIN would be at a further disadvantage whereas the "selfish" does not care*.

rDPS and aDPS have an ideal inverse relationship: the higher your personal damage and aDPS, the lower your rDPS and vice versa.

This is due to the fact that "selfish" jobs still benefit from buffs. If their rDPS is higher, they will get further damage in burst windows thanks to others, thus raising their aDPS.

*The skill of playing a buffless job is to learn how to abuse others' buffs to feed their rDPS and raise your aDPS.

[Ramiee]

Opener is an issue I agree, but not only that

Mobility and utility is a problem,

weather BLM have faster recast/cast times (doing this is dumb btw)
or PCT have higher cast time and less utility (healing/dmg buff)

either ways BLM needs a buff I agree but I hate flare star it shouldn't exist

I hate flare star but it exists might as well try to make it work. I am of the mentality that BLM should be buffed while PCT remains the same. BLM does have faster recast times anyway with leylines, maybe making the leylines movement thing on a short cd of like 1 or 2 seconds might be a way to help the constant movement but IDK, its clear BLM is not made for the current raid design.

[CaedemSanguis]

They cannot deal more rDPS than a buffing job because rDPS is equal to nDPS for a "selfish" job. It's their dummy DPS. It is not healthy for game balance that a "selfish" job can deal more damage attacking a dummy in Urqopacha alone than a, let's say, a NIN buffing 7 other players with Dokumori in a buff-abusing comp playing well.

rDPS and aDPS have an ideal inverse relationship: the higher your personal damage and aDPS, the lower your rDPS and vice versa.

This is due to the fact that "selfish" jobs still benefit from buffs. If their rDPS is higher, they will get further damage in burst windows thanks to others, thus raising their aDPS. The skill of playing a buffless job is to learn how to abuse others' buffs to feed their rDPS and raise your aDPS.

Balance is only important for 8 man hard content ? We dont care if through msq a viper will kill a mob faster than a brd

Hum, I dont think it’s a problem honestly, if either a buffless job or a job with buff is top rDps, in the end you still want to choose the one with the higher rDps or burst potency

[Aco505]

Balance is only important for 8 man hard content ? We dont care if through msq a viper will kill a mob faster than a brd

Hum, I dont think it’s a problem honestly, if either a buffless job or a job with buff is top rDps, in the end you still want to choose the one with the higher rDps or burst potency

This game is balanced around 8-people content, particularly Savage and Ultimates.

I'll try to explain my point further using numbers:

A NIN's nDPS (personal damage alone, as in attacking a dummy) in the 80th percentile of M1S is 21395. A VPR's nDPS at the same percentile is 23570.

VPR on its own deals around 10% more damage than NIN.

For VPR, rDPS equals nDPS because it provides no buff.

Now, rDPS-wise, NIN sits at 23022 whereas VPR is at 23570.

The NIN has bridged some of the gap thanks to Dokumori, which has provided 1600~ DPS and even then, the VPR is still ahead.

But it doesn't end there, because VPR still benefits from others' buffs whereas the NIN depends on the party to burst properly and have an ideal comp to abuse its buff better.

Another example would be Battle Litany's rDPS contribution in the Extremes before the tier was released. The damage contribution of BL in a more ideal situation would be around 1800+ rDPS yet it wasn't uncommon to have numbers closer to 1000 due to party members dying or not bursting properly. Thus, a DRG would suffer and lose almost half the damage contribution from its buff. "Selfish" jobs don't have this issue.

Even if it could be argued that the differences are not that substantial, a job without buffs should never be above jobs with buffs rDPS-wise.

Otherwise we'd have the same situation with SAM in ShB and BLM in the later stages of EW. Criterion dungeons were also a poignant example of this, although part of it is due to the awful way buffing jobs are balanced there.

On the other hand, the data is not fully conclusive yet. We'll know for sure when weeks pass, and more people achieve BiS.

[Lyth]

Criterion has job-specific multipliers to account for the fact that your raid buffs count towards less people. Jobs like tanks and SAM get a 1 multiplier.

aDPS is much more composition-dependent than rDPS and neglects damage contributions of some buffs, while allowing others through (Everburn was a notable example of a buff that probably should have been excluded, last expansion). The metric was really introduced to combat card padding that was prevalent in Heavensward and early Stormblood.

Burst potential is influenced by a number of factors. A job being a buff provider doesn't automatically mean that its burst is weak. RPR is a classic example of a buff provider with powerful burst. PCT is another.

A lot of jobs have moved away from timer-gated burst design that was more common in Heavensward/Stormblood simply because fights with lots of intermissions favor burst orientated jobs (also because timer-gated burst is a lot more forgiving). Resource-gated burst achieves more of a middle ground with this, because you still need uptime in order to build gauge. PCT breaks this rule because motifs don't require a target. It's a bit like if charging up Soul Sow during downtime gave you 50 Shroud for your next burst and if you got to start every fight at 50 Shroud.

I think one thing that's going to eventually need to happen is making motifs not usable without a target/usable in combat only.