Frontlines: Leechers and Feeders

[MisterNublet]

You are correlating player performance to your own standard. Not sure I would say that is any better.

SE has the duty set that anyone can queue based on the requirements set. Nowhere is there a requirement for a specific performance.

Nothing you have provided indicates they doing nothing. I see assists, damage done, and healing. Once again, you are holding them to your standard.


Same thing can happen in Alliance Raid. If their group doesn't see it as an issue, not sure where you get to be the decision maker.

You really came back for seconds after your last asinine post?

I can give you ample time to delete this post if you like because it's just as dumb as when you were comparing gear to player participation in a duty.

I'll even do ya a favor and delete this post too once yours is gone.

[Mawlzy]

Any system that gets implemented to reward performance is primed for abuse. The least worst option of them all would be rewards as you play, Exp for kills, captures, assists, and based on placement a multiplier gets added to the experience you gain at the end of the match. (1x, 1.2x, 1.5x) Needless to say Dark Knight meta needs to go before that can happen, and I'd wipe out Battle high or modify it to make BH V more vulnerable to being killed in exchange for more DPS.

The other half of this is the players who cry ignorance. Mandatory PvP tutorials need to be implemented before ANYONE is allowed into PvP. The bare basics at a minimum such as recuperate, guard, purify ect. That way, ignorance will be no excuse, and if people chose to sit around the entire match doing nothing, they'll recieve nothing.

This would be the kind of approach that would have a chance of working, but I'm already imagining the Discord mafia figuring out the meta comp that min-maxes it.
And if it turns out to involve stacking SCH or something, it's a pound to a penny you'll get said Discord mafia Q-synching in and ruining the matches. Someone would inevitably write a guide on "How to maximize your rewards multiplier in FL," and in the current meta at least we can imagine what that'd produce.

I'd suggest the advantage to matchmaking over match-based rewards is you filter out the non-combatants before the match even starts. It would also act as a training ground for new players if you were compelled to play your first X matches in the lowest skill tier. SQEX always gives players something for engaging in content, and I don't seem them changing that base philosophy. It likely requires smaller teams, which IMO has other advantages in terms of quality of play.

[Menriq]

You really came back for seconds after your last asinine post?

I can give you ample time to delete this post if you like because it's just as dumb as when you were comparing gear to player participation in a duty.

I'll even do ya a favor and delete this post too once yours is gone.

Seems like you are only looking for people agreeing with, since there are several others who have indicated why this is a bad idea. Should you actually want to engage in a discussion and actually address what I wrote, I'll be more than happy to reengage. In the meantime, I wish you well in your crusade.

[Atreus]

Nothing you have provided indicates they doing nothing. I see assists, damage done, and healing. Once again, you are holding them to your standard.

If a SMN doing more than 0 self-healing, a RPR doing more than 35k damage, and a MNK doing more than 66k damage in an entire Frontline game are considered "standards", then oo-wee are we elitist.

[MisterNublet]

Seems like you are only looking for people agreeing with, since there are several others who have indicated why this is a bad idea. Should you actually want to engage in a discussion and actually address what I wrote, I'll be more than happy to reengage. In the meantime, I wish you well in your crusade.

No, cause you first compared players performance in Frontlines to players queueing into Arcadia with relic gear which is a stupid comparison.

Now you are moving the goal post and trying to gaslight by pretending it actually wasn't about the relic gear in Arcadia but player performance in the raid that SE hasn't set a requirement for after I pointed out that the gear meets the requirement.

But go ahead and keep posting and continue to make yourself look foolish.

[Menriq]

No, cause you first compared players performance in Frontlines to players queueing into Arcadia with relic gear which is a stupid comparison.

Now you are moving the goal post and trying to gaslight by pretending it actually wasn't about the relic gear in Arcadia but player performance in the raid that SE hasn't set a requirement for after I pointed out that the gear meets the requirement.

But go ahead and keep posting and continue to make yourself look foolish.

It was never about gear, but I'm guessing you didn't get what I was trying to say, so let me rephrase it. You are upset at the effort people are putting into PvP. However, if you are going into content with others and not putting materia in the gear, then someone could also question your effort. Since there is nothing in PvP nor PvE that explicitly references performance / effort, this is all subjective. Hopefully now you get the point.

[MisterNublet]

It was never about gear, but I'm guessing you didn't get what I was trying to say, so let me rephrase it. You are upset at the effort people are putting into PvP. However, if you are going into content with others and not putting materia in the gear, then someone could also question your effort. Since there is nothing in PvP nor PvE that explicitly references performance / effort, this is all subjective. Hopefully now you get the point.

Your previous post.

...because they were queuing up for Arcadian in artifact gear and not having materia in their gear?

Are they doing their dps rotation, or just standing around and only auto attacking the boss?

Doesn't matter.

It was 100% about the gear.

I can give you ample time to delete this post if you like because it's just as dumb as when you were comparing gear to player participation in a duty.

I'll even do ya a favor and delete this post too once yours is gone.

The offer still stands.

[Menriq]

Your previous post.







It was 100% about the gear.

I can see where you think it's about gear, and that's on me for not wording it in a better manner. Artifact gear is level 99. You can get better gear from the 100 dungeons, tome gear, etc. Even if you went with artifact gear, there is no materia. So what I was trying to say, and put that in my last response, was about the effort. You want people to put effort into PvP and hold them to your standards and not let them get rewarded, then you can't in turn be upset if someone in PvE wanted to withhold rewards from you from not meeting their subjective standards.

If you want to argue about afking, I'm 100% with you. But unless it's 100% objective, there is not going to be any way to determine who should and shouldn't get rewards.

[Menriq]

If a SMN doing more than 0 self-healing, a RPR doing more than 35k damage, and a MNK doing more than 66k damage in an entire Frontline game are considered "standards", then oo-wee are we elitist.

Gonna be honest. I've done PvP on different jobs, and I probably did just as bad if not worse when I was first learning them in PvP. Especially as melee when you have to be in the thick of things, learning when to get in and get out is a skill that takes practice. I'm not arguing that the performance is good, only that we have no idea what the skill levels are and trying to hold people to subjective standards is never going to fly.

[MisterNublet]

I can see where you think it's about gear, and that's on me for not wording it in a better manner. Artifact gear is level 99. You can get better gear from the 100 dungeons, tome gear, etc. Even if you went with artifact gear, there is no materia. So what I was trying to say, and put that in my last response, was about the effort.

You're still correlating gearing up with effort and participation in a duty. Even if a player is too lazy to upgrade their artifact gear with dungeon/tome gear, if they are still doing their dps rotation and making an attempt to respect the mechanics in a fight, then they are doing their job and it doesn't matter if its artifact gear because they are still making an honest effort to participate inside the duty. Not to mention the fights were designed by SE to be cleared with said item level which the artifact gear has +5 item levels on.

Also, someone with upgraded/tome gear can do jack all in a fight, so all that "effort" they put into gearing up means literally squat if they make zero effort in the duty.

You want people to put effort into PvP and hold them to your standards and not let them get rewarded, then you can't in turn be upset if someone in PvE wanted to withhold rewards from you from not meeting their subjective standards.

If you want to argue about afking, I'm 100% with you. But unless it's 100% objective, there is not going to be any way to determine who should and shouldn't get rewards.

Weird thing about PvE content, if I chose barely participate by only pressing a single dps skill on my keyboard, decide not to heal the tank, not use my mitigations as a tank, or repeatedly die to the same avoidable mechanics. High chance I'm not clearing the content and won't receive any rewards because I refused to participate and a hindrance to my party.

Only reason its a high chance and not a 100% chance because too many people keep making excuses and refuse to hold anyone accountable for when players are purposely making no effort and are griefing the party.