Both Extremes cleared w no healer

[Urielparadox]

Yup. And I remember how quickly our Chicken Nugget got nerfed because of it. Whatever happened to that Dev Team, I wonder. I miss them.

chicken nuggeies weren't nerfed for that. they were nerfed/changed long after that. They were changed because new smns, and trolls, would use it thinking it was the best cause it was new, not reading tooltips as normal, and trolls would do it just to mess things up. I miss it, but it wasn't nerfed immediately nor for that reason alone.

[Reimmi]

Unfortunately, Xeno will explode if they nerf war. I mean, unfortunate for him. The rest of us would enjoy it.

Would it really kill warrior to make bloodwhetting based on damage dealt, not raw overtuned potency?
I mean, that'd increase the skill cap. use it during your high damage abilities to get more healing than you do currently, i imagine.

[Sivante]

Would it really kill warrior to make bloodwhetting based on damage dealt, not raw overtuned potency?
I mean, that'd increase the skill cap. use it during your high damage abilities to get more healing than you do currently, i imagine.

As a WAR player I can confirm this wouldn't change much of anything. I still blow it on my high damage abilities just out of habit, and WAR like everyone else leans into CRT/DET or CRT/DH half the time so it may risk actually buffing their life gain. That being said...

Won't matter. Most the solo's we are seeing are not contingent upon WAR self-healing, but are more making use of Pally's group mits. Wouldn't help anything to nerf WAR, the problem is the Trinity is broken. Tanks get mitigation, DPS, and healing. Healers get DPS and healing. DPS get... DPS. To truly fix the issue we would either need to make Mit unique to Tanks, DPS unique to DPS, and healing unique to healers, or adopt the hybridization and lean in. Unfortunately out of DPS, Mit, and healing only one is 'replaced' by good play of mechanics, and that's healing which leaves healers in a lurch I emphathize with.

Either way the current balance team lacks the courage to make meaningful changes to the Trinity, character depth, or the mechanics so non-healer play is just the new standard. I'd expect to see it continued short of a massive overhaul of how the trinity is handled.

[Darnath]

"No Healers"

I see 2 healers, 2 somewhat healers, and a quarter healer
WAR x2. PLD x2, And DNC (And SMN, but meh)

But nerfing WAR's party wide healing?
You got a better chance of
A) World Peace
B) Forums being happy about the game
C) Balmung Ul'dah being cleaned up.

[Sivante]

"No Healers"

I see 2 healers, 2 somewhat healers, and a quarter healer
WAR x2. PLD x2, And DNC (And SMN, but meh)

But nerfing WAR's party wide healing?
You got a better chance of
A) World Peace
B) Forums being happy about the game
C) Balmung Ul'dah being cleaned up.

Ain't wrong. Personally, I'd prefer to see Tanks only Tanking, DPS only DPSing, healers only healing. But sadly the community kind of went to war with that idea once already so I dunno what a fix would look like at this point short of a total overhaul.

[Silver-Strider]

This is a better example. EX2 Speed Kill, zero healers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Poqu6p7F8S4

I agree with you that this is abnormal and 99% of players would not be able to pull it off, but it is interesting nevertheless.

So we have an example of a bad group going thru and a good group going thru.

Are we going to move the goal post from 1% of players to 5% now because it's very clear the bad group isn't in the top 1% of players

[Darnath]

Ain't wrong. Personally, I'd prefer to see Tanks only Tanking, DPS only DPSing, healers only healing. But sadly the community kind of went to war with that idea once already so I dunno what a fix would look like at this point short of a total overhaul.

Agreed.

I would've loved if they did the job focusing for Dawntrail and leave the graphical upgrade for 8.0
All the shiny graphics in the world mean squat if jobs are just left in the mess they currently are.

[Sivante]

I would've loved if they did the job focusing for Dawntrail and leave the graphical upgrade for 8.0
All the shiny graphics in the world mean squat if jobs are just left in the mess they currently are.

Yeah, it feels a bit disingenuous to chrome out the engine when it isn't working properly. Fix the machine, then you can focus on making it pretty.

[Rithy255]

this sort of clear is fine because it's more difficult to not bring a healer.

I think it's fine if people challenge run and use suboptimal comps to clear without a healer as long as it isn't the norm.

[Sivante]

this sort of clear is fine because it's more difficult to not bring a healer.

I think it's fine if people challenge run and use suboptimal comps to clear without a healer as long as it isn't the norm.

I would 110% be on board with this logic process if it was possible to have a no tank challenge, but that's not possible. This creates a skew in the balancing of mechanicis and class design alike, making tanks disproportionately more powerful than all other classes in the balancing sense.

Tanks - Mitigate, DPS, Heal
Heals - DPS, Heal
DPS - DPS

If tanks can DPS 30% as well as a DPS, and heal 30% as well as a healer, then DPS should be able to mit 30% as well as tanks and heal 30% as well as healers. Healers, equally, should have 30% the DPS of a DPS, and 30% the mit of a tank. What we are seeing is not proportional, and as a result leads to skewed gameplay, such as bored healers being borderline unnecessary, and tanks solo running things freely or doing 'tank only runs.'

As a WAR player, I'm shooting myself in the foot saying it but this isn't how you balance games or mechanics. This just leads to a predictive path of Tanks being the most bang for your buck in leveling, gameplay, strategy, and tactics that will only increase over time. I think this is the mechanical keystone that is destroying everything.

If a tank can provide 30% the DPS of a DPS, heal 30% as well as a healer, but also get to mitigate better than either with a more dependable up-time, then you have a very real problem on your hands with creation of balanced mechanics.