Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[DynnDiablos]

Ugh yes, I’ve experienced a fair amount of pushback from people like that.

The issue is you now have a large portion of the population who adore their characters and the new updates and looks. To revert it, or change shapes of things now would require not only a free fantasia for people to once again have to readjust their characters, but then you have people who will be furious because they've known grown used to new their characters as is. It's simply too late. I expect they will make minor adjustments over things in future patches, but I wouldn't expect them to make big enough changes where a fantasia would once again need to be required.

[Turnintino]

The issue is you now have a large portion of the population who adore their characters and the new updates and looks. To revert it, or change shapes of things now would require not only a free fantasia for people to once again have to readjust their characters, but then you have people who will be furious because they've known grown used to new their characters as is. It's simply too late. I expect they will make minor adjustments over things in future patches, but I wouldn't expect them to make big enough changes where a fantasia would once again need to be required.

It's only been a month, and the fact that they showed no hesitation when making these changes the first time suggests to me they wouldn't care a second time. Making some adjustments as requested here would at least be a return to something more familiar. But in a perfect world (and many here have requested as much), we would have access to all these options, old and new, in an expanded character creator. But you tell me which you think is more likely to happen.

[Doopliss]

The issue is you now have a large portion of the population who adore their characters and the new updates and looks. To revert it, or change shapes of things now would require not only a free fantasia for people to once again have to readjust their characters, but then you have people who will be furious because they've known grown used to new their characters as is. It's simply too late. I expect they will make minor adjustments over things in future patches, but I wouldn't expect them to make big enough changes where a fantasia would once again need to be required.

You keep making these arguments and it's exactly what I mean. Making the upturned eye option actually upturned again, or the nose option that's supposed to have a little bump on it have a little bump again, or just making all the lip changes not...objectively worse (I straight up have not seen anybody like the new lips better. And no, I don't mean the new lip colors) aren't huge sweeping changes. It's a return to an option that was lost and homogenized.

Also, why do the hundreds of customers--who have been happy with their characters for literal years--who are furious now matter less? This argument doesn't make sense. Like Turnintino said, it's only been a month. It is absolutely not too late.

It is also not unheard of for MMOs that had model graphic updates to make adjustments months after. They can offer a free fantasia again if they think any adjustments actually are large enough.

I can't seem to find the footnote anywhere though, so would you mind telling me where it is? Sorry in advance if I don't reply afterward, as my subscription will likely have expired by then.

Sorry for seeing this so late, night shift scheduling's turned my whole sleep pattern into a mess. It should be in this link, at the bottom:
https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...ecd574ad0d397a

Here's a screenshot of the note, if that helps, too:

It's not great, but it's...something. And if you compare all the benchmarks to official release, you can see adjustments were made to some faces within the two months they had at the time.

I hope if the day you return comes, your character looks like herself again.

[ConantSivrha]

The issue is you now have a large portion of the population who adore their characters and the new updates and looks. (…)

I’m sorry, but this doesn’t make sense. You’ve been arguing in support of replacing the old faces since before those changes were implemented, when they were only in the benchmark. You waited until after the update to apparently take the position that characters shouldn’t be altered once players have grown to love them.

The following exchange is from a thread about the benchmark:

I think much of what I am seeing on here are now personal preferences, not actual issues. Yoshi P has said multiple times not everyone will be happy - so they are giving Fantasia. They NEVER promised a 1 to 1 update. Character aesthetics would change. I find it funny many folks screaming their character looks totally different and lost their essence - they look basically the same.

End of the day, they need to be focusing on actual broken graphical issues on character models - neck seams, arm seams, hair clipping. NOT you being upset lips are shaped differently or eye shapes are more round. (…) It's time to just be happy with what you have and move on.

No, but he did say at the LV FF that the graphical update would be done "while preserving the overall look that you know and love"(…)

Well, you're ultimately going to have to get over it. SE isn't in the business of catering to every single demand.

Which one is it? These contradict each other:
a) Characters look basically the same as they used to, it’s funny how you’re “screaming” about nothing (if so, why should anyone be upset over supposedly-inconsequential changes being reverted?)
b) Characters’ appearances have changed and their facial features are shaped differently, and this is the way it’s supposed to be, so get over it, move on, not everyone can be happy (if so, shouldn’t players continue to “get over it” if their characters happen to change again in the future?)
c) It’s wrong to change characters’ faces after we’ve had the current version for a month, because people have grown to love their characters’ current looks (if so, why does this principle apply only to the faces we’ve had for a month, and not the ones some players had for a decade?)

I don’t doubt that there are players who prefer the new versions of their characters specifically because of the new facial features (as opposed to better lighting, higher-resolution textures, and other graphical upgrades that don’t require fundamentally altering the shapes of features). This is why many people have asked for features that are more faithful to the original ones to be added as options, while keeping the new features alongside them, so players can select the ones they prefer for their own characters.

[CCheshire]

I don't think it's too late since it's only been 1 month, and I wanted to thank OP and others for gathering detailed pics about their feedback.

Although I am F2 M Viera I had fewer issues in the future but I did lose his cute former lip shapes so SE still has time to make it up to their long-time players.

[noumen0nn]

Something I see with the players who like the update that I think is worth mentioning: Very few of them mention specifics when talking about the changes or what they like. It's not "the eyes are smaller and more upturned so they're cuter", or "the philtrum is thinner so it looks more mature", it's just "she looks cuter/older/etc". This is not to disparage people who feel that way at all, it is simply to give the perspective that, if adjustments were made to change the faces to be closer to their original looks, the vast majority of players who are happy probably would not be able to really tell the differences anyway. "It looks the same to me" was the OVERWHELMING majority opinion of players during the first benchmark, after all. I don't think there would be an outcry if changes were made now, I think most people who are already happy would log on and say "I can't tell what's different so whatever", whereas the players who are unhappy wouldl get the fixes we deserve.

[ApolloGenX]

I just want to add that I like the graphics update. I think things look a lot better and I really like the crystals... and metals...

That said: There are some great documented examples here that I think the art teams need to look at!

People have REALLY taken time to give examples and I hope the teams pay attention.

[CidHeiral]

Apologies for the late reply, was probably not the best idea to post all of that right before savage release.

I actually made a similar bug report during the second benchmark release. However I'll put my gifs into your report. If yours get declined, I'll repost them into mine.

No worries, thanks for adding your examples to the post. I would be surprised if the post gets declined since the issue is so incredibly blatant but I guess we'll see!

[GalahGriff]

I recently resubscribed to FFXIV & It's a very unpleasant surprise that the graphics "upgrade" situation with respect to character customization hasn't changed much since the first Dawntrail Benchmark, despite the developers' reassurances that they would keep our characters as similar as they were before the graphics update.

Comparing my male viera in Endwalker graphics(left) & Dawntrail graphics(right) side-by-side reminds me of the before & after comparison photos/diagrams of an Ozempic user's face.



The narrower jaw, hollower cheeks, & lighter eyebrows— which I personally really, really hate— the prominent eye bags, different lip shape, tanner skin, & brighter irises— which I'm neutral about, & would perhaps see as a positive change if not for the negatives...

& that's just one of my player characters (I'm a bit of an alt enthusiast). Most of my characters give me the uncanny valley effect & are so different that they make it hard to enjoy playing sometimes (except for my male aura who I'm glad looks slightly less goofy & scowly), & I'm glad to see that I'm not alone.

I think that the changes are so extreme &, as a whole, were underdeveloped/under-tested based on some of the before-&-after lighting comparisons for some cutscenes with dark or dramatic lighting & that female hrothgar are misaligned in some cutscenes (has anyone else seen the super wonky Ardbert & hrothgirl WoL fistbump clip?), that they shouldn't have been implemented in the first place.

I talked about this in a previous post I made when the first Benchmark came out, but I'll say it again: replacing existing character customization options with new ones, instead of simply giving us more customization options to choose from, is a huge misstep on the developers’ part.

FFXIV's character customization is really limited as is. There is some good & some bad with the graphics changes, & maybe the developers just don't see a way forward without pissing off either the people who love the changes or those who hate them. But the way I see it, if you can change a customization option so drastically, you're fully capable of restoring the original version & adding the changed version as an option alongside the original, at the very least.

I'm really hoping for a focus on character customization development for the next while— starting with what I mentioned above. There is so much to improve & I feel like customization tends to be neglected; just take a look at the state of hrothgar customization in general, the implementation of hats & hoods on hrothgar & viera, gender locked gear, the modding community of which a majority focus is on making more character customization options, etc.

[Cheapshot]

The issue is you now have a large portion of the population who adore their characters and the new updates and looks. To revert it, or change shapes of things now would require not only a free fantasia for people to once again have to readjust their characters, but then you have people who will be furious because they've known grown used to new their characters as is. It's simply too late. I expect they will make minor adjustments over things in future patches, but I wouldn't expect them to make big enough changes where a fantasia would once again need to be required.

I realize that a number of people have already responded to you but since you were replying to me I’ll answer. I feel this view is perhaps misguided for a number of reasons.

Firstly it’s anecdotal in nature. We don’t know the size of the player base who prefer the new features, and we don’t know what people are actually responding positively to in many cases. There’s very very little, if any, specific feedback highlighting what people like better. It’s very possible much of the positive reaction is driven by higher resolution skin and hair textures as well as more complex lighting with higher resolution shadows. The number of people highlighting specific changes they like such as “I like the new lashes better” is even smaller than the amount leaving negative feedback so I don’t think we can confidently make assumptions either way. It’s just as likely that people would be equally happy if the facial features were adjusted more to their original shapes, since it would still look “improved” due to the higher resolution textures and lighting.

Secondly the fantasia was provided as an effort to accommodate those unhappy with the changes, not those who aren’t. It was a nice gesture but I don’t think it ever really helped with this particular issue. People who want their original looks back have nothing to fantasia to. So I don’t know that it should be much of a factor. If they added my original feature shapes as additional CC options I would happily pay for a fantasia if I didn’t still have both the new free one and the original from ARR. And they can always give away another free fanta. In don't think they’d need to, it would be an unnecessary loss, but there is no reason they couldn’t.

Thirdly. It is strange to make the argument that it’s “too late” and we shouldn’t make changes that might upset players who have grown attached to facial features they’ve had for a month, while simultaneously telling players attached to the facial features they've had for up to ten years to cope. It just doesn’t make sense. How could one weight the latter group not more, not even equally, but less? That’s backwards. I think it makes much more sense to modify the face options to look more like their original shapes and add new CC options for those who like the new ones they’ve obtained recently. That makes more sense, but I would honestly happily settle for being the one who has to fantasia if I could have my character looking like I remember them but HD.