Machinist: The "Selfish" Physical Ranged that is not allowed to be Selfish

[Valence]

Ik I was just wondering about how hw Wildfire would work in raid buff meta.

Don't get me wrong, I'd kill to get HW/SB WF back, especially now that we have a stack system on hypercharge/overheat (even when people had asked for it for over 4 years until they finally added it...).

[Malpercios]

Looks like MCH isn't doing any better so far in this tier and it will only get worse with people getting gear and BRD/DNC helping that. Again another expansion where MCH is very weak the first tier, we'll probably have to wait until 7.2-.3 until we get some reasonable buff just to put us back in line. It's been the same thing since Stormblood at this point. I've mained this job since HW and it's the same patterns over and over again. Please, someone at Square Enix look into physical range, especially MCH, it needs help. Why must this job be the butt of the joke. Damage is overall too low, AoE rotation is a mess, you don't even auto crossbow until 5 targets now, Flamethrower is a minimal gain for a capstone skill. I actually adore the additions it got in Dawntrail, it almost feels perfect but so many things still make no sense. I've made multiple posts about this in the past. Wildfire still CANNOT crit or direct hit nor does it scale with it and isn't AoE. Drill's cooldown stops working with skill speed at level 94. High ping still hurts this job which makes some players rely on 3rd party tools or pricey VPNs to mitigate the issue. I've asked Yoship about this personally in a Fanfest question years ago and it was dismissed on the grounds of being a ISP issue, which it isn't.

If Machinist cannot at least do decent damage, can we please get our old hypercharge back where it applied a vulnerability on the enemy so we can feel like we're on par with the other physical range. If you want to keep MCH a pure DPS, why not give it some cast time on their tools for instance. A 1.5 second cast on each of them similar to how Samurai has casts. You could in exchange buff it's damage. I'm not sure why the devs judge that Summoner should do more damage than MCH whilst providing mitigation, buffs and a resurrection while having barely any casts themselves and a much easier rotation.

[EdwinLi]

I said this before in other post but I think they can resolve this by taking certain elements from the PvP design and implamenting this into PvE MCH to establish the whole Self-DPS concept.

The Sniper Rifle skill is one with the most potential for this.

As I posted in another thread....

The Sniper Rifle is ripe for a Very High Damage Sniper Rifle mechanic that is normally in most Gun Jobs for RPGs and MMOs. It is a matter of how to implement it though I think they can make use of the old Ammo system for the Sniper Rifle skills. Setting it as a skill about performing High Damage attacks but must account for the risk where the MCH cannot move when firing the Sniper Rifle with their Sniper Rifle skills similar to how it is in PvP as a PvP Limit break.

They can use the Ammo system to determine what kind of attacks the Sniper Rifle performs based on which Ammo the Sniper rifle will fire while using a skill to switch up the ammo (but limited in use so players will need to manage if they want to us it or not to switch up the Ammo type) or use the ammo they have loaded into the Sniper Rifle.

A simple skill that require players who insight when to use and how to use based on if they want to take the risk of not moving to fire the Sniper Rifle or not for high damage.

[Pidgeon]

Sure SE still hasn't solved the ranged tax problem in 6+ years, but all hope is not lost for MCH being competitive this expansion.

There will be a new deep dungeon! Please look forward to it.

[Valence]

Looks like MCH isn't doing any better so far in this tier and it will only get worse with people getting gear and BRD/DNC helping that. Again another expansion where MCH is very weak the first tier, we'll probably have to wait until 7.2-.3 until we get some reasonable buff just to put us back in line. It's been the same thing since Stormblood at this point. I've mained this job since HW and it's the same patterns over and over again. Please, someone at Square Enix look into physical range, especially MCH, it needs help. Why must this job be the butt of the joke. Damage is overall too low, AoE rotation is a mess, you don't even auto crossbow until 5 targets now, Flamethrower is a minimal gain for a capstone skill. I actually adore the additions it got in Dawntrail, it almost feels perfect but so many things still make no sense. I've made multiple posts about this in the past. Wildfire still CANNOT crit or direct hit nor does it scale with it and isn't AoE. Drill's cooldown stops working with skill speed at level 94. High ping still hurts this job which makes some players rely on 3rd party tools or pricey VPNs to mitigate the issue. I've asked Yoship about this personally in a Fanfest question years ago and it was dismissed on the grounds of being a ISP issue, which it isn't.

If Machinist cannot at least do decent damage, can we please get our old hypercharge back where it applied a vulnerability on the enemy so we can feel like we're on par with the other physical range. If you want to keep MCH a pure DPS, why not give it some cast time on their tools for instance. A 1.5 second cast on each of them similar to how Samurai has casts. You could in exchange buff it's damage. I'm not sure why the devs judge that Summoner should do more damage than MCH whilst providing mitigation, buffs and a resurrection while having barely any casts themselves and a much easier rotation.

Agreed on everything but cast times on tools. Not that I would hate it (though it's gonna be problematic for weaving during bursts and openers...), but it's not gonna magically turn the class into a caster with actual casting constraints to justify a damage up. But maybe i'm delusional, if SE actually think it does even though it wouldn't, then i'd take it.

[Malpercios]

I was merely throwing out ideas, really. I'm just so jaded by the state of this job by now. Early HW MCH was very weak until it got buffed around the second tier and became amazing due to piercing debuff provided by dragoon. Early SB it was a mess and needed buffs which we got with overheat and even then it was rather clunky and the least played job. ShB brought the rework and it was below average and all physical range needed buffs after the first tier. EW's first tier both DNC and MCH were very weak, similar to what it is now, to the point it was a big meme until 6.3 with TOP and the addition of dismantle. And now this. Why is it melees gets mini reworks, a ton of changes per patches and we get a whooping 1 liner of buff for a 2min CD which was about more or less a 1% gain, when the job needed more. I get not doing the same damage as melees/blm/picto, but why are we always dead last even compared to other physical range and resurrection casters which SE just acknowledge they balance us around those. Why does it feel like it's literally only 1 intern working on this role or someone who just doesn't care. There are plenty of ideas thrown on these forums over the years and on the JP forums yet they're all ignored.

I really am tired of having to wait for another two years or a few months to hopefully see some changes only to end up in the same spot we always land in. There are tons of games out there with amazing gunner/machinist archetype with different playstyles they could get inspiration from, even from other final fantasy games. If the pure DPS isn't working for them because they are scared of balance issue, then please just make it more of a support like the other range. Give it a 10% debuff damage increase on bosses like old hypercharge, make us focus on debuffing the enemy. While sure MCH can clear week 1 as we've seen, it's just depressing to see it in this state constantly.

[Valence]

Party support has always been at the core of rphys identity and is still actually part of the role's description on the job guide website. I'd argue that procs also were but it's not mentioned on that website.

The fact that they removed both from MCH is antithetic to the role. DNC and BRD are still in the gutter with SMN and RDM, but those jobs at least provide something either in the form of strong raid buffs that can allow them to keep up with other jobs as patches go up, or have raises. There is a reason MCH keeps falling behind constantly and they constantly have to rebuff it to keep it relevant. Funny thing is people complained hard when BRD's party buffs notably from songs disappeared in ShB, which they quickly reverted and they even added a new buff (Finale) in EW to suit the support fantasy people had been asking for. Meanwhile you can ask all you want about MCH and support, and it will fall in deaf ears, like everything when it comes to that job. They don't like what we like, they don't want what we want, my only conclusion is that they're actually happy with the state the job is currently in.

[RagiForzando]

First time ever posting on these forums because I'm fed up at this point, after having hope that maybe finally something would change for just once and that the ranged tax would be somewhat justifiable with the new direction of fights.

I've seen a lot of the same sentiment that ranged should be taxed, and I agree that should be a factor; But when it yet AGAIN is at the point that we are talking about ditching the ENTIRE role beyond week 1 of progression in savage because the 1% bonus is worse than having a different role, there is a problem.

This discussion has been around for a while in EW too. It already felt VERY bad to essentially be a 1% statstick and just be there to help that bonus, and now it's at the point where even that is in question. MCH is objectively at the worst end of the stick and has been for MOST of the patches over the last 3 expansions. It is obvious something needs to change and these miniscule buffs that keep happening show that SE is deathly afraid of MCH ever being even slightly too strong.

I think the best course of action is to give MCH a raid buff for this expansion as a band-aid fix, and then go for a full rework of the ENTIRE role in 8.0. Sweeping changes won't happen this expansion but things need to change. It's honestly pathetic to see that nothing has changed over the course of 3 expansions and this exact problem keeps rearing its ugly head over and over. The role needs either unique utility, and no 10% mit isnt unique, or the damage to hold itself afloat without the 1%.

[Corwin_Sunchaser]

Just came here to say it's really frustrating to do well on MCH (80+ parse) and still getting out dps by a melee or PCT who randomly push buttons (30ish parse)...

SE do something!

[CasterSvarog]

Thinking more on it, the entire Ranged Role is gonna need some kind of rework in the future when inevitably we get a fourth ranged dps.
To the devs MCH is just stuck in this position where it needs to be better then BRD and DNC in personal dps, but it can’t be so much higher then the two when party buffs are added in alongside the ranged tax, another debate by itself.

Personally, alongside general damage buffs accord the roles board, for MCH I’d do a couple of thing. Standard stuff like AoE on Hot shot/Air anchor, our Bishop and Queen, just more of that. But I’d like to see them bring back the Ammo but reworked to have it change our 1-2-3 into having a 1.5 second cast time. At least with that you could justify a less punishing ranged tax.