These Viper changes aren't good, and I'm confused.

[Moostelle]

I know the servers aren't even back up yet, but based on the last month I've had playing the absolute daylights out of this job, learning its ins and outs, and trying to improve at it, I can identify that the two things I found most compelling about Viper are being removed basically wholesale.

Viper was fun for me because of how many things I felt like I was doing - and not just in terms of raw APM. It was fun and satisfying to manage the Noxious Gnash timer, and taking care not to drop the various Venom buffs during long burst periods. The former also added an element of skill surrounding when to use Dreadwinder (or, Vicewinder, I guess). Those are both gone now.

Noxious Gnash added so, so much to Viper. It gave you a reason to think about how you played around burst windows, something to manage during the relatively slower sections of your rotation, a tiny little thing to optimize Dreadwinder uses around. Now, you just press 1 if you pressed 2 last time you started a combo, and 2 if you pressed 1 last time. Vicewinder? Press that thing whenever you want. Same with Reawaken.

Pretty much all of that also applies to the various Venom buff timers, except the Venom buff timers had the added effect of making the dual wield combos feel more important. Part of why I enjoyed Viper was that the "filler" 1-2 combos felt more engaging than other jobs' equivalents (hi, Reaper). This wasn't just because of the action replacement stuff, it was because they didn't feel like filler (hi, Reaper), I had to actively prioritize them during my rotation. And now, they've fallen into the same place that other jobs' basic 1-2-3 combos occupy: I use 'em when there's nothing better to do.

I would like to express some confusion. If people didn't like Viper, what's wrong with that? So many people loved it - I can't find a static with space for one, and Party Finder's full of 'em. Besides, this game has 20 other jobs to play, 5 of which are melee DPS! If Dragoon mains and Warrior mains and Dancer mains didn't enjoy Viper, why is that such a bad thing? Must Viper, at the expense of its die-hard fans, appeal to people who prefer other jobs anyway?

Let me put this in different terms. If I walked into a seafood restaurant and went "I would prefer a steak," must the seafood restaurant now suddenly serve steak at the expense of the quality of their seafood? Why can't I go to the restaurant next door that serves steak, and let people enjoy their lobster in peace?

I'm left to wonder if the team ever intends on giving players jobs that appeal to one specific kind of player, and give that kind of player something to really sink their teeth into. If we'll ever see a restaurant that focuses just on making great sushi, instead of a bunch of restaurants with a slightly above average version of everything.

Maybe we'll throw our feedback through a translator and put it on the JP forums next time?

[Tunda]

1 month is enough fun.. wait 2.5 years to have another fun month

[genuine_stranger]

1 month is enough fun.. wait 2.5 years to have another fun month

I'm predicting that the job update in 8.0 is going to remove any job flavor we have left and make every role play the same. Same combos, same amount of buffs but with different effects, no DOTs and no positionals. Every opener and rotation will be the same and will be expected to love it.
/s

[Tunda]

I'm predicting that the job update in 8.0 is going to remove any job flavor we have left and make every role play the same. Same combos, same amount of buffs but with different effects, no DOTs and no positionals. Every opener and rotation will be the same and will be expected to love it.
/s

We stayed for 2.t years for dragoon and astro rework

Astro rework is so dumb
Dragoon didn't get any rework

[RancidDax]

I would like to express some confusion. If people didn't like Viper, what's wrong with that? So many people loved it - I can't find a static with space for one, and Party Finder's full of 'em. Besides, this game has 20 other jobs to play, 5 of which are melee DPS! If Dragoon mains and Warrior mains and Dancer mains didn't enjoy Viper, why is that such a bad thing? Must Viper, at the expense of its die-hard fans, appeal to people who prefer other jobs anyway?

Let me put this in different terms. If I walked into a seafood restaurant and went "I would prefer a steak," must the seafood restaurant now suddenly serve steak at the expense of the quality of their seafood? Why can't I go to the restaurant next door that serves steak, and let people enjoy their lobster in peace?

I'm left to wonder if the team ever intends on giving players jobs that appeal to one specific kind of player, and give that kind of player something to really sink their teeth into. If we'll ever see a restaurant that focuses just on making great sushi, instead of a bunch of restaurants with a slightly above average version of everything.

Maybe we'll throw our feedback through a translator and put it on the JP forums next time?

This honestly really feels like monk all over again. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't upset about the changes they made to monk this expansion.