Dawntrail is a good Story but not a Great Story. (SPOILERS)

[Raven2014]

I remember feeling hella whiplash in SB due to two stories not being given time to simmer at all before being sent across the sea to the next area and rinse and repeat the entire starting MSQ. I remember not giving a crap about any character but Yotsuyu or Zenos. I remember these forums grilling the MSQ for terrible pacing (and choppiness of the story) and Lyse with vitriol nonstop. DT definitely handles the two story halves FAR better than SB (pre - postMSQ patches) ever did.

- Maybe SB had more 4s or 5s, but it's DT that has 1s and 2s.

- In SB, they may be moment I just shrug, shake my head and move on. DT has plenty moment that actually made me want to scream at the screen.

- In SB, there was no character that I wished I would never see again. In DT, even if I can never speak with WL ever again, it's already too much.

- In SB, there were plenty characters I wished I would see more like Sadu, Gotetsu, Yotsetsu, Hien, even "little sun". In DT, there is no character that intrigued. While they are not WL level, but if I never see them again, I can't say will miss them either.


So yeah, I was nowhere as pissed in SB as I am in DT. I feel the "Sphene, listen to me!" scene is so bad, it'll enough to balance for 1/3 of the bad scene in SB by itself.

It's fascinating that the forums are actually defending SB MSQ and Lyse after all the shit talking that occurred back then.

Then I envy you. If seeing people with different opinion enough to fascinate you, then you must be living your life in constant fascination.

[Bright-Flower]

Isn’t this forum post a personal opinion? Or are you and OP stating a fact? Also do you deny that Thancreds story of grief and how he handled that with Ryne in SHB was not human? Because while I didn’t care for the man, it was written in a way that made me actually feel something for him. Or do we not care because it’s my opinion?

Yeah IMO the scions were really well written in SHB and EW especially. Not as much in DT where they didn't really get as much to do, the Twins especially really suffered in DT imo, but pre DT they were pretty well written and Krile when the story actually does focus on her in DT gets some great moments too.

[Havenchild]

How did it change her though? She started out very naive, thinking she knew everything about her people, and wanting peace, love, and happiness for them. She finished being naive, knowing a few facts of her people, and wanting peace, love, and happiness for them. Apart from "learning of other peoples cultures", what exactly did she learn? How did these experiences shape who she became? Because from where I'm standing shes very much the same person she was before her journey. Her experiences didnt really shape her. You can almost see Koana and Wuk Lamat as two sides of the same coin. Where Koana learned to understand and accept the different cultures of Tural, Wuk Lamat didnt really learn to accept that some things need to change. She just filled in the culture gaps in her head that she already thought she had filled.

It would have been a strong moment of growth for her to throw in the towel to let Koana win the rite. Saying "I understand that you are a changed man. I believe you understand the type of leader that Tural needs. We both know that I dont have what it takes to lead a nation. My dream of being dawnservant, with my aspirations for the Turali people of peace, love and happiness are so childish. They arent a strong foundation for national policies". But no. The smart one throws in the towel.. which I dont think he would do since Wuk is a bit of an airhead. Not what Tural needs at all after his own personal growth. Tural is lucky enough that Wuk Lamat recognises this, so she offers him the job of Head of Resolve.

I would argue you've missed the entire point of the Rite of Succession and Galool Ja Ja's entire test of each of the candidates, and not because of a lack of explanation, but because of your own lack of understanding.

It is inferred what specifically Wuk Lamat and Koana need to learn to become Dawnservant throughout the entirety of the MSQ.

Wuk Lamat -

- Her test is two-fold in understanding the culture of the people beyond what she has come to understand in the capital as referenced by her father. To understand the roots and history / culture of her people, each of the races/ societies. The feats are meant to guide her through this by being designed around "understanding" the why each are the way they are and how it plays into the mold of Tural as a whole. Secondly, it is to test her mantle, specifically to overcome things that she is squeemish / scared of / afraid to approach. A leader must stand tall and approach the issues head on even when you don't like it. She absolutely becomes much more fearless by the turn of the story half of pretty much everything while equally still carrying the lesson of understanding along the way in her approach to Sphene. So her experiences even into the attack on Tural, absolutely do shape her.

Koana -

- Is meant to learn that the culture of the Turali tribes is very important and must be respected while also that entirely depending on outside technological advances for solutions isn't immediately the solution that his people even want. He learns this lesson, by time of the defense of Tural, by instead of depending on outside tech, he calls and coordinates each regions defenses of local militias in the defense effort. Galool Ja's lesson also being that Turalians are already strong, united.


Having said that, the story rounds out both of them by making them EXACTLY dual leaders, which benefits literally everyone. Your version of "how it should be " would not only invalidate multiple levels of MSQ story, but I suspect infuriate even more people because now you'd have one or two leaders, neither of which who want to be Dawnservant having to defend against Zoraal Ja and Sphene in the second half. Not to mention, Koana isn't really written to being a super active combat person either compared to all the other candidates. You think Koana was beating Zoraal Ja? The cowboy kid in Shaloani got better gun feats on screen.

Then I envy you. If seeing people with different opinion enough to fascinate you, then you must be living your life in constant fascination.

You got it twisted. It's not the fact that people have a different opinion or not. That's fine, it's all subjective.

It's that the forums as a whole are trying to do a 180 after hating SB / Lyse for literal years and now that the DT hate train is the popular convo, with the exact complaints, people are trying to suddenly make it seem like SB was this fantastic story for MSQ, and Lyse is a fantastic well built character.

That is not only disingenuous, it's alright BS. I will continue to call that out nonstop. If you want to hate DT that's fine, but we not about to try and position SB MSQ / Lyse as great, when both were rough at best and the only things most people remember about the SB MSQ or Lyse as a character, was that both got better during the post patch cycle and the Yotsuyu/ Tsuyu storyline.

[Kasasagi]

I feel the "Sphene, listen to me!" scene is so bad, it'll enough to cover 1/3 of the faults in SB by itself.

And that Szene in the middle of a Trial is the only valid reason for the Hate on Wuk Lamat. If it wasn't for that szene no one would give so much hat towerds Wuk Lamat. And yes i do not like this szene either. It stops unnecesery the fight and have to wait to long and the english voiceacting is of. The german and japanes are way better and french is ok.

[Kaurhz]

The biggest issue is that a lot of character growth was fairly inorganic, this was entirely the case for Wuk Lamat, and those that did have some organic growth it was sudden and not really explored enough. The direction they were taking Zarool and Bakool were OK, but was insufficiently explored, IMO. Aside from this, it was an OK premise, with an extremely bad presentation, accompanied by an obnoxious main character that absorbed far too much of the story. (They tried to do the whole we're mentoring Wuk, but they utterly failed in this regard)

[Bright-Flower]

The biggest issue is that a lot of character growth was fairly inorganic, this was entirely the case for Wuk Lamat, and those that did have some organic growth it was sudden and not really explored enough. The direction they were taking Zarool and Bakool were OK, but was insufficiently explored, IMO. Aside from this, it was an OK premise, with an extremely bad presentation, accompanied by an obnoxious main character that absorbed far too much of the story. (They tried to do the whole we're mentoring Wuk, but they utterly failed in this regard)

Yeah. Bakool Jaja would have really benefited from either A. tweaking how Valigarmanda gets out so it's not just Bakool stupidly releaseing the most powerful monster in the continent's history for petty reasons or B. Put more emphasis into his actual redemption arc. The rest of what he did, while bad, was on the level I could buy into a somewhat fast turn around but that action really should have had more consequence for him in the story.

Zarool Ja really needed more development. More scenes between him and Wuk or him and his father etc. I had the same thought during his trial when the shades of his followers and family showed up as i did when Gosetsu showed up in Yotsuyu's trial. "Wow. This would be a really powerful moment if I had any investment in this character whatsoever."

[Alchemii]

If you compare it to HW, ShB and EW its not good. If you compare ist to ARR and SB it is good and better.

Correction if you compare it to ARR or SB it's still not good. It's just a bad story all the way around, and is easily the worst in the serious.

[Bright-Flower]

Correction if you compare it to ARR or SB it's still not good. It's just a bad story all the way around, and is easily the worst in the serious.

DT certainly has its issues, but still wasn't as bad as SB for me. Not universally so in every way, but as a whole.

[Raikai]

In hindsight, I feel Lyse was much more successful than Wuk Lamat, being similar cases.

Dawntrail's 1st part had a good premise for a 'low stakes story', but is like giving a professional camera to a person who only knows how to use their smartphone to take pictures.

Even if we look past Wuk Lamat's issues, the whole thing had SO much potential if they had built the 6.4/5 patches to actually get to know Wuk Lamat and Koana (The void storyline didn't need that much time tbh) so you could decide in 7.0 who you'll follow (alongside with Krile). We'd get split "what if the WoL chooses..." scenarios that could be replayed in NG+. And it makes sense even if we didn't change the outcome, since both of them get to be rulers anyway.

The second part was good, but by then we are already so worn out by how bad the MSQ has been in a boring 'technical aspect' (get information, fetch quests, useless cutscenes, etc) that it just hurts the bigger picture.

I'll also say that Shaloaani was COMPLETELY mishandled as a zone. It's the pure definition of filler and knowing that there's Solution 9 coming soon doesn't make it any more enjoyable. Most of Shaloaani's zone plot (not just the last bit) should be the actual warzone between Alexandria and Tural, and that's how you get to bond with the different people there. To me it makes no sense that the Vanguard even exists as a passageway when they can just send airships through the dome - if Vanguard was indeed the only way through it would justify a ground invasion through Shaloaani first.

[Havenchild]

Correction if you compare it to ARR or SB it's still not good. It's just a bad story all the way around, and is easily the worst in the serious.

Considering even the devs had to redesign ARR not once but TWICE, to make it palatable, going to say neither the devs nor the public agrees. I would also rate DT MSQ over the pre patch SB MSQ, simply put because it was hard to get invested into either side of orthard or ala mhigo when you are constantly being yoyo'd between. With DT, I thought the first half was too much world building and kind of a slog but the second half was far better on par with FFXIV brand and way more thought provoking then either side of SB.