Dawntrail is a good Story but not a Great Story. (SPOILERS)

[Xellith]

There are like.. 5 threads right now discussing the MSQ and how the writers did a piss poor job at writing it. I dont think you are gonna find too many who agree with you..

[Kasasagi]

how the writers did a piss poor job at writing it.

If you compare it to HW, ShB and EW its not good. If you compare ist to ARR and SB it is good and better.

There are like.. 5 threads right now discussing the MSQ

There only should be one thread if people wouldn't be like they are.

I dont think you are gonna find too many who agree with you..

I don't realy care. Just want to say how i see the Story.

[Raven2014]

If you compare it to HW, ShB and EW its not good. If you compare ist to ARR and SB it is good and better.

I don't remember being even half as angry as I am with DT than I was after finishing ARR or SB.

[Havenchild]

I don't remember being even half as angry as I am with DT than I was after finishing ARR or SB.

I remember feeling hella whiplash in SB due to two stories not being given time to simmer at all before being sent across the sea to the next area and rinse and repeat the entire starting MSQ. I remember not giving a crap about any character but Yotsuyu or Zenos. I remember these forums grilling the MSQ for terrible pacing (and choppiness of the story) and Lyse with vitriol nonstop. DT definitely handles the two story halves FAR better than SB (pre - postMSQ patches) ever did. It's fascinating that the forums are actually defending SB MSQ and Lyse after all the shit talking that occurred back then.

[Turtledeluxe]

I remember feeling hella whiplash in SB due to two stories not being given time to simmer at all before being sent across the sea to the next area and rinse and repeat the entire starting MSQ. I remember not giving a crap about any character but Yotsuyu or Zenos. I remember these forums grilling the MSQ for terrible pacing (and choppiness of the story) and Lyse with vitriol nonstop. DT definitely handles the two story halves FAR better than SB (pre - postMSQ patches) ever did. It's fascinating that the forums are actually defending SB MSQ and Lyse after all the shit talking that occurred back then.

Considering review scores, I'm gonna go ahead and say thus isn't accurate. DT doesn't even have characters as compelling as the ones you mentioned, and characters are something expansions can live or die by even if other things are nonsense. SB was slow and kinda boring but it still made sense thematically. DT just throws a bunch of shit at the wall and prays you won't think too hard.

[Havenchild]

Considering review scores, I'm gonna go ahead and say thus isn't accurate. DT doesn't even have characters as compelling as the ones you mentioned, and characters are something expansions can live or die by even if other things are nonsense. SB was slow and kinda boring but it still made sense thematically. DT just throws a bunch of shit at the wall and prays you won't think too hard.

I'd love for you to point to which claim I made being inaccurate or the sentiment being as such. Luckily for us, the forums can easily be searched and the threads linked. So please, which comment did you say was inaccurate?

MSQ being messy?
Lyse not being popular?
Villians not being liked?

Every single complaint being thrown at DT, we have an SB counterpart thread/s. Every single one.

[Donze]

Considering review scores, I'm gonna go ahead and say thus isn't accurate. DT doesn't even have characters as compelling as the ones you mentioned, and characters are something expansions can live or die by even if other things are nonsense. SB was slow and kinda boring but it still made sense thematically. DT just throws a bunch of shit at the wall and prays you won't think too hard.

I would also add in agreement with Turtle that the writing (that is to say the wordy dialogue AND the way story telling was presented other than dialogue) was on point in Stormblood, even if slow and at times a wall of text, as you say.
An example of why DT is crap and SB was good is articulated well by Ankior in a post about worldbuilding and Show vs Tell, particually in reference to the field trip lectures where we are simply told what the beliefs are and largely removed from any discovery or exploration ourselves (remember that even the electors are for this occasion only, we rarely interact with anyone going about their usual day to day in DT: https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxivdiscus...might_be_seen/

Now, back in Stormblood, we also meet different cultures and tribes, and one of them is the Undying ones in the Azim Steppe. The striking difference here is how we are exposed to information. Accompany with Gosetsu, we found two hunters fighting some beasts and one of them gets killed, later, after Gosetsu is uncomfortable with the way they disregard the body, we learn from Sadu that it doesn’t matter, because the person who died was a great warrior that will be reborn. From this we learn of their beliefs of reincarnation, that their great warriors don’t fear death. Even their names may be from a past reincarnation. This prompts Gosetsu to seek out the body, and there we sit with him as he reflects on all of this.

Gosetsu - “Pardon me. When first I heard the tales, I could not help but scoff. "Another queer tribe," I thought, "with still queerer customs." Yet having borne witness to their rites, I cannot deny there is a certain logic to it all. A samurai will die for his lord without hesitation or regret. But this is not because he delights in such sacrifice. It is because he has faith that his death will serve a higher purpose. There is an awakening in that instant, when the heart sings and the blood burns, and his soul...his soul finds peace. There is comfort in that…”

There is a similar parallel in Shadowbringers when we participate in the funeral with the Night's Blessed. Show, dont tell.

Both of these are just examples, one of which from SB, of the difference. I 100% agree with Trutledeluxe that "DT just throws a bunch of shit at the wall and prays you won't think too hard", and would add that what IS thrown at you is given no second thoughts regarding consistency or continuity because it will never be revisited, so they didn't even try.

[Striker44]

Considering review scores, I'm gonna go ahead and say thus isn't accurate.

Review scores from users are relatively worthless here, since they tend to come from a very specific portion of the gaming population (which both *isn't* the general FFXIV population and *isn't* the kind likely to find stories about positivity and growth their thing). Critics who reviewed both DT and ARR back in the day tend to put them very close to each other, which makes sense to me given their similar nature coupled with DT having sharpened things since the ARR days but following ShB and EW vs. following 1.0.

The thing you're responding to is also an opinion, so the concept of one thing being "better" than another literally can't be "accurate" or "inaccurate."

DT doesn't even have characters as compelling as the ones you mentioned, and characters are something expansions can live or die by even if other things are nonsense.

This is an opinion. What is the obsession with the negative echo chamber around here trying to tell people their opinions are wrong?

SB was slow and kinda boring but it still made sense thematically.

Also an opinion.

DT just throws a bunch of shit at the wall and prays you won't think too hard.

Ditto.

But you can't tell me with a straight face she's never seen how hanuhanu greet each other, when she is constantly running around the city. Heck, she visited their festival as a child. Unless she fell on her head or grew up chained up inside her bedroom, there's no excuse how she wouldn't know a simple greeting.

She only knows the hanuhanu that moved to Tuliyollal. I know in my own interactions with the various hanuhanu NPC's in the capital, I never saw any of them give the "traditional" greeting. I could easily see something like that going by the wayside among the group that moved to Tuliyollal, especially given how other aspects of hanuhanu culture have gradually receded from memory.

(I encourage you to use google translate and read anything with 50+ upvotes/likes, not just the mega threads).

(I encourage you to go to Youtube and poke around a bit; you'll find comments talking about the story being meaningful and impactful getting hundreds of upvotes.)

I think it’s reasonable to think SB was the weakest link MSQ wise at the time and then have something worse come along to make you realize “Oh if this is bad then I guess SB wasn’t that bad.” It was the halcyon days and we didn’t know it.

I'm sensing rose-colored glasses instead. People naturally tend to view the past as better than it really was. Then again, this forum has said every expansion is the worst ever when it was current, only to go back and praise them later.

[Donze]

(I encourage you to use google translate and read anything with 50+ upvotes/likes, not just the mega threads).
(I encourage you to go to Youtube and poke around a bit; you'll find comments talking about the story being meaningful and impactful getting hundreds of upvotes.)

How is this relevant?
I have no doubt there are people saying the story is impactful and meaningful. There are people here doing that (you dont have to go to Youtube for that).
There are also Youtube videos expressing frustration over the poor story with thousands of likes.

Neither of those observations (the fact that Youtube exists and there are videos for and against the DT story) change the fact that, as I stated, "Even the JP forums, long know for being more defensive of FF than other regions, is tearing this dialogue and story telling apart (I encourage you to use google translate and read anything with 50+ upvotes/likes, not just the mega threads)." Looking at anything with 50+ is just qualify volume of JP sharing the frustration (read every post if you'd like) while avoiding regarding a single mega thread as reflective of all the players.

The point being that even what is usually the more polite and defensive voices of the JP forums have expressed frustration with the DT story (which I encourage you to verify for yourself, dont just take my word), so any claim that "DT is fine because X was also bad" or that "People saying DT story is bad has no merit and should stop saying that!", appears to be ignorant and ill-informed.

[Ketojan]

I'm sensing rose-colored glasses instead. People naturally tend to view the past as better than it really was. Then again, this forum has said every expansion is the worst ever when it was current, only to go back and praise them later.

My bad for speaking is if for everyone, but big disagree. I can still see the negatives that SB had, I just realize that it wasn’t the worst. I loved Zenos, Fordola, Yatsuyu, Alisaie becoming part of the crew more, and I felt nothing towards Lyse. Comparing this to DT, I feel nothing for most of these new character, and straight up hate Wuk lamat. I've also personally realized SB wasn’t the worst for the last two expansions combat wise, not story wise tho because I think shb and endwalker were peak for ffxiv. So for me it’s the halcyon days, I didn’t know how good I had it at the time.