Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

[Raven2014]

Granted it's still dumb, like someone got worried duels to the death would be too savage or uncivilized (which, to be fair, I agree with) but that's where you probably add a "If the duel ends in death, there are no winners and the killer gets jailed" rule instead to enforce some civility.

It's like ... if you decide to include a scene someone get shot in the chest, than you should also show the blood and bleeding. Imagine if you see that scene with the character get shot, another NPC hold their hand crying as they're dying, lying in their own puddle of ... water (?) How would you feel about that? For me I'm pretty sure any kind of tension intended for the scene would immediately evaporated, and that's the kind of effect the rubber bullet thing had on me in term of the zone impression.

[LisseyCrowe]

It's like ... if you decide to include a scene someone get shot in the chest, than you should also show the blood and bleeding. Imagine if you see that scene with the character get shot, another NPC hold their hand crying as they're dying, lying in their own puddle of ... water (?) How would you feel about that? For me I'm pretty sure any kind of tension intended for the scene would immediately evaporated, and that's the kind of effect the rubber bullet thing had on me in term of the zone impression.

In all honesty I don't know why you'd ever expect a graphic depiction in this game and expansion (the few times we get anything it's for unique cases, not a side quest to a sidequest in all but name), but ...

I think the mistake was bringing attention to it at all. If the guy was shot with normal bullets, fell down, groaned for a while and got back up because he's wearing armour no one would've batted an eye. Might even have made the kid look cooler since he's in a tank top iirc?

Why are people settling things with gun duels at all? Because it's a western reference? I can suspend my disbelief when a beast tribe does something weird, but when it's all humanoids going "MIGHT MAKES RIGHT, MIGHT MAKES RIGHT" and we go along with it it just seems cringe. Even the Scions/Player only go that once nothing else has worked.

[KevinM1]

I really hope we get a few patches where we can hang out with Thancred, Y'Shtola, or Estinien for a while. You know, to cleanse the palette.

It's funny... there's a part about halfway through DT where Wuk Lamat wants us to stay with her, and internally I went "Ma'am, the moment you're finished talking I'm teleporting back to Ul'Dah."

[Daralii]

In all honesty I don't know why you'd ever expect a graphic depiction in this game and expansion (the few times we get anything it's for unique cases, not a side quest to a sidequest in all but name), but ...

I think the mistake was bringing attention to it at all. If the guy was shot with normal bullets, fell down, groaned for a while and got back up because he's wearing armour no one would've batted an eye. Might even have made the kid look cooler since he's in a tank top iirc?

Why are people settling things with gun duels at all? Because it's a western reference? I can suspend my disbelief when a beast tribe does something weird, but when it's all humanoids going "MIGHT MAKES RIGHT, MIGHT MAKES RIGHT" and we go along with it it just seems cringe. Even the Scions/Player only go that once nothing else has worked.

Emet's first appearance in Stormblood had him get shot dead with a closeup on his corpse's face, and the post-Elpis cutscene with Venat had her caked in blood. They can't have a character collapsing in a pool of their own blood for age rating reasons, but they didn't shy away from pushing what they could get away with either. A duel using real bullets, someone taking one, and having some red around the wound and on the ground wouldn't be at odds with how things were in the past.

[SteakDriven]

Gah. Japan's content restriction laws are even worse than America's nowadays. The entire Diet needs to be replaced with people who actually enjoy life.

[Raven2014]

I think the mistake was bringing attention to it at all.

I'm not sure you are disagreeing or agreeing with me but ... that is kinda my point though? If they're not ready to go all in with it, than do it at all. Having no duel is better having a duel with rubber bullet.

The point of the example I gave is if they are not ready or can't show blood, they can:

- Come up with a difference scene instead of getting shot.

- Getting shot and fade to black.

- Adjust the camera angle so the wound is not visible on screen.

But if they gonna build a scene showing a person getting shot lie dying in a puddle of liquid sipping from the wound, that liquid better be blood and not water.

[LisseyCrowe]

Emet's first appearance in Stormblood had him get shot dead with a closeup on his corpse's face, and the post-Elpis cutscene with Venat had her caked in blood. They can't have a character collapsing in a pool of their own blood for age rating reasons, but they didn't shy away from pushing what they could get away with either. A duel using real bullets, someone taking one, and having some red around the wound and on the ground wouldn't be at odds with how things were in the past.

And those are important scenes, which means they can go against their usual rule of no blood and gore because it's paramount to show it.

This is a dumb scene in yeehaw town about comically evil NPC #3 who minutes before had to run from his base because of burning dinosaur poop pheromones, in an expansion that wants to advertise itself as a cheery vacation and, up to this point, was and is still presenting itself as so. You can't casually turn this scene into a gory execution without rewriting the entire area if not Dawntrail as a whole.

I guess my point is it's not worth talking about it on it's own, when the entirety of Dawntrail is soft. It would be incredibly poor writing for just this one case not to be. Now if we wanna talk about that softness, hell yeah. But maybe it deserves it's own topic. To bring it back to our Lord and Savior Wuk herself, this rubber bullet situation is the equivalent of saying she ruined Dawntrail because the "dropped Taco scene during the intro was forced and stupid" when we all agree it's the least of our worries.

[Papayatar]

Not to be a party pooper but I think you guys are thinking too hard about the rubber bullets, or at least backwards. That is to say, I was under the impression that the rubber bullets were exclusively for duels, not the other way around, hence the red-headed guy going "Using rubber bullets, of course", as if to bring attention to the fact that that's not the usual ammunition in those guns.

Granted it's still dumb, like someone got worried duels to the death would be too savage or uncivilized (which, to be fair, I agree with) but that's where you probably add a "If the duel ends in death, there are no winners and the killer gets jailed" rule instead to enforce some civility.

Ok that makes a little bit more sense if that’s the only use.

But then like, who’s holding each party accountable for only having rubber bullets in the chamber lol. Would’ve been cool if the deputy cheated with real bullets but was a crap shot.

And depending on if you don’t care if you kill someone in a duel the threat of “you’ll go to jail” doesn’t mean much tbh.

Though if duels are that dangerous why even relegate them to rubber bullets someone getting shot with anything other than a water gun isn’t exactly pleasant. Might as well solve problems with rock, paper, scissors. Because being a better duelist doesn’t make you any more right than winning rock, paper, scissors does.

[Papayatar]

Why are people settling things with gun duels at all? Because it's a western reference?

Yes, this is most definitely why and probably no other real reason. Just your stock Western movie references, duels, crooked law enforcement, also a train is there, and the optional interact with Native peoples.

[LisseyCrowe]

Ok that makes a little bit more sense if that’s the only use.

But then like, who’s holding each party accountable for only having rubber bullets in the chamber lol. Would’ve been cool if the deputy cheated with real bullets but was a crap shot.

And depending on if you don’t care if you kill someone in a duel the threat of “you’ll go to jail” doesn’t mean much tbh.

Though if duels are that dangerous why even relegate them to rubber bullets someone getting shot with anything other than a water gun isn’t exactly pleasant. Might as well solve problems with rock, paper, scissors. Because being a better duelist doesn’t make you any more right than winning rock, paper, scissors does.

Agreed! I think this is entirely stupid and, like more things in Dawntrail, uses real world references instead of substance.

The moment a skilled evildoer appears killing, stealing and [redacted] will all become legal, because apparently winning a duel makes you right. It's insane.