Yoshi P - Your next live letter, DT msq and the damage to the brand

[angienessyo]

We are running in a circle.
You are talking as a current old player that enjoy all part of the game.
We are talking about those who only play for the MSQ (which is a LOT), and the new player, for a game that is known for it's story before everything else (like it or not, just or unjust, it's the case).

Wherever you look at, social media, website, content creator, this is the worst reviewed expansion ever and mostly because of the MSQ which is divisive. It's okay to tell new player "don't worry after ARR it's okay" and "yeah so you have another ARR after but well let's hope what come next will be okay".
I'm sure Dawntrail will be disappointing on the long term for SE, and we are in a period in video game industry where it isn't good when you disappoint expectancy, and the Final Fantasy series, XVI or Rebirth both already disappointed SE.

All that is speculating obviously, and I hope I'm wrong, but the video game industry situation is depressing, so I'm pessimistic about a lot of things.

I think people that only play the game for MSQ are really missing out. I also think people that skip all the cut scenes are missing out. For me it's a little weird that the community really hates when people are cut scene skippers but skipping out on the game's actual content is cool. The content is so much of the actual game. (and I'm not saying casual players have to go do Ultimate or Savage, there's other content for people of all skill levels)

I'm of the belief you shouldn't only judge an expansion based on its story, because the story is only a small part of what you'll be doing throughout an expansion's lifespan. If I spend 30 hours doing MSQ but 500+ hours raiding, doing the new Eureka/Bozja, leveling jobs, running dungeons, running the new deep dungeon, etc. which do you think is going to influence how I feel about the expansion more? My current 2 favorite expansions are Stormblood and Shadowbringers, and my feelings on their stories are actually a very small part of what made those two expansions great to me. Those two expansions were amazing because I thoroughly enjoyed my time actually playing them and doing their content. (I will not be ranking DT until I've experienced all its future content)

Also I have a lot of friends that play the game, both old and new players. Within my friend group most opinions on the MSQ ranged from "I loved it" to "it was alright". I actually don't personally know anyone that HATED it. Like, I didn't even know people hated it until I came to the official forums. I take what people say on the forums with a grain of salt because there's often really wild opinions on here and people will overblow how big a problem is. That and the internet has a major problem with people not being able to voice their opinions without a lot of hyperbole. Like, people can dislike things without it being the worst thing ever and a catastrophic hit to Square Enix and Yoshi P's reputation or whatever.

[Raven2014]

Why the whole "what type of players" is even matter here though?

Imagine you go a restaurant and order a full course meal with like 5 dishes on it, and they usually taste all fine. But one day, suddenly one of the dishes taste really bad ... you would complain ... right? Imagine in that situation someone else come over and say "suck it, the other 4 is still good so the meal is fine, just eat and stop complaining". What would you say to that person?

[Zackneifein]

I think people that only play the game for MSQ are really missing out. I also think people that skip all the cut scenes are missing out. For me it's a little weird that the community really hates when people are cut scene skippers but skipping out on the game's actual content is cool. The content is so much of the actual game. (and I'm not saying casual players have to go do Ultimate or Savage, there's other content for people of all skill levels)

I'm of the belief you shouldn't only judge an expansion based on its story, because the story is only a small part of what you'll be doing throughout an expansion's lifespan. If I spend 30 hours doing MSQ but 500+ hours raiding, doing the new Eureka/Bozja, leveling jobs, running dungeons, running the new deep dungeon, etc. which do you think is going to influence how I feel about the expansion more? My current 2 favorite expansions are Stormblood and Shadowbringers, and my feelings on their stories are actually a very small part of what made those two expansions great to me. Those two expansions were amazing because I thoroughly enjoyed my time actually playing them and doing their content. (I will not be ranking DT until I've experienced all its future content)

Also I have a lot of friends that play the game, both old and new players. Within my friend group most opinions on the MSQ ranged from "I loved it" to "it was alright". I actually don't personally know anyone that HATED it. Like, I didn't even know people hated it until I came to the official forums. I take what people say on the forums with a grain of salt because there's often really wild opinions on here and people will overblow how big a problem is. That and the internet has a major problem with people not being able to voice their opinions without a lot of hyperbole. Like, people can dislike things without it being the worst thing ever and a catastrophic hit to Square Enix and Yoshi P's reputation or whatever.

I can agree with most of that, even if I think that without the MSQ, as an MMORPG FFXIV would be far too bland to exist.

But like I said, liking it or not or finding it unjust doesn't change that FFXIV is the "JRPG with somme MMO elements in it" in the mind of most of peoples, even more for those who don't play it. A little like SWTOR was the "KOTOR with some MMO in it".
And a divisive view in what is considered the "must" of a game is a problem for attracting new players or retaining those who play only for it.

[Nothv13]

Yeah, it was serviceable. Reviews can shove it because, let's be real, people are faster to review bomb than they will to say something positive. : /
Case and point, this entire Xpac's release thus far. Yes, the story was fine. I can understand why it was grating for some. But, this Xpac gave us a lot of QoL the game needed alongside a graphical/lighting facelift, job changes that join the QoL aspect for the better imo. I've been loving how clean some jobs feel now. I see a lot of those sour reviews only talking about the story and Wuk Lamat, and I think it's disingenuous to those that worked on many other aspects of this product.

As far as I'm concerned, the "brand" is just fine because it's being worked on by people that actually give a damn. Not their fault some people didn't take the hint when the team said multiple times this Xpac was going to be different, and even said it was okay not to like it. The team have been nothing but cool to us before and during this mess.

Metacritic has been actively deleting the reviews that are review bombs. Again, the reviews are generally positive about the actual combat changes and encounters. The story however is so bad it brings them down, since the story is a huge a draw, often the focus. Yes, a part of a game can be so bad it overshadows all the good parts.

You can have different and have all that they stated without having what is really showing to be a crap story. We weren't the focus of Heavensward. We weren't the focus of Stormblood. Both built the setting and in general were lower stakes than ShB and EW while also focusing on other characters, Estenien, Ysayle, Lyse, Hien, yet did not sideline us to a mere cheerleader. Those were also more adventure like than DT having us just follow Wuk around like an obedient puppy. We were supposed to be on an adventure to find the City of gold, Wuk's story was just to get us there. We find it, and then drop it. Instead the villain gets to explore it first, off screen. Makes no sense that you'd just up and leave what you want to explore and learn about just as you find it. Hell from the looks of it, Estenien had the adventure and vacation we were told the WoL was going to have.

If I wanted a MMO where I'm a side character I'd play pretty much any other one out there.

[Voidmage]

snipped for text limit

You are correct with people missing out on stuff if they focus only on a few things.
You are also correct that an expansion shouldn't be rated only on it's story. That's actually not what most here do.
People only give the story the most focus and a heavier weight in reviewing the expansion.

I also loved Eureka, Bozja, Ishgard restoration and other things.
The story for me is just the most improtant thing with all it's characters and lore. I always liked reading books and playing story heavy games and so I criticize it if it is not up to what I expect from the writers of ff14.
For me the story was a 2/10, absolutely devestating but the rest of the game is good so I give it a 6 to 6.5/10. Because that one thing has more weight for me and from all the discussions right now it seems there is quite a number of others who whould weight the reception mostly on the story side.
From what i have seen. Most here in those threads more or less also tend to that score +/-1

There is hyperbole in the criticism yes and insulting messages.
That thread title is pretty overblown but on the other side much of the pro arguments are also overblown or straight up insulting.

[Zackneifein]

Not their fault some people didn't take the hint when the team said multiple times this Xpac was going to be different, and even said it was okay not to like it.

First, if they said it's ok to not like it, it also means that it's ok to criticize it.
Second, I'm personally inclined to think that they knew it was going to be a problem, that the MSQ would be divisive and Wuk Lamat would also be divisive. They did what I could call false advertising.
In the cinematic trailer, Wuk Lamat is barely present, she has as much time in it than any other Scion (which is a joke for some of them), and I'm sure they did that because they knew that doing a trailer truly representing the story, which would be mainly about Wuk Lamat, the preordering sales would have been worse.
And third, different doesn't excuse some lack of judgement or mistake they made for this MSQ.

[RezPls]

This is such an absurd post it's hard to even like fully comprehend that a serious person is actually saying this stuff.

They put out 10 years of bangers, start a new story from scratch, and y'all can't even let them get past the opener before calling it a failure.

I think you all live in a little bubble where you actually believe everyone around you hated it or something. Grow up.

Well mama, this is the product they released. So that's what's being critiqued. If you're eating something at a restaurant that tastes off, do you finish the meal and ask for seconds THEN tell your waiter that it tastes bad? Cause that's effectively what you're saying we should do.

[Brignadalee]

They did what I could call false advertising.

Your back okay after stretching that hard?

[Wildheaven182]

People hated storm blood story but the content was and still Is the best the game ever had. Would much rather have a dud story and banger content, you only go through the story once.

There is a large vocal minority in this game of toxic casual players who want everything catered to them, you are seeing this on the forum now with the story complaints, content is too hard complaints, not liking the graphics update complaints.

I think when you step back you will find the majority of players who are here for the content are having a fantastic time, same as in stormblood.

Added on that this forum is a vocal minority, the majority of my friends enjoyed the story and the ones that didn't aren't complaining a load.

It's a matter of opinion, not everyone is going to like everything. I liked the low stakes fun plot line, after years of the world is ending.

Plotwatchers and rpers. They dont care about the gameplay and never will, the game is their social media platform.
Just give them a "story mode" option that converts all duties into cutscenes since apparently they enjoy reading 60 hours of silent cutscenes on outdated animation rigs ,and let us have a fun game to play.

[Voidmage]

Your back okay after stretching that hard?

It's not false advertising but from a story perspective it comes quit close at some parts.
Wuk lamat being the main character was never a topic be in in fanfests or the trailers or interviews.
As was the WoL being so much in the background.

I don't know if that was an accident or they knew what they did but it kinda has that taste.

Given the japanese comments even they were surprised by her screentime and the WoL stuff so there probably also was no interview in japanese and no problem in translation.