DRK needs more self-sustain in dungeons

[Althanash]

There's only 2 ways to look at it when I play DRK especially if the run is pretty rough.

Either I am playing bad OR the healer is. Or if you're really unlucky the DPS make the healers life incredibly difficult.

Reading your post at the beginning said plenty. You got stuck at a boss because your healer was awful. Now to back this up properly. I have a very good friend who also happens to play Tank and Heal. An in some cases we feel like we spoil one another because we do well together.....but if she wants to play DPS. I have to think more about what I'm doing. Am I dealing with a good healer or a bad one? To be really blunt and somewhat mean here. It becomes glaringly obvious when I have a bad heal. So I'm left with 2 choices.

1) Play it slower so we get through it.
2) Or deal with the struggle an hope I rotate my cooldowns well enough to compensate for the problem.

[Reinha]

Am I dealing with a good healer or a bad one? To be really blunt and somewhat mean here. It becomes glaringly obvious when I have a bad heal. So I'm left with 2 choices.

1) Play it slower so we get through it.
2) Or deal with the struggle an hope I rotate my cooldowns well enough to compensate for the problem.

Dungeons should be harder to complete when playing with bad players. Not impossible, but harder. That's the point of getting good: to make things easier. It shouldn't be: oh both dps and the healer suck so I'll just solo this because it makes no difference. The roles are there for a reason and it should be noticeable when performance in one role is lacking. It should take thought to compensate for other people's shortcomings.

[Althanash]

Dungeons should be harder to complete when playing with bad players. Not impossible, but harder. That's the point of getting good: to make things easier. It shouldn't be: oh both dps and the healer suck so I'll just solo this because it makes no difference. The roles are there for a reason and it should be noticeable when performance in one role is lacking. It should take thought to compensate for other people's shortcomings.

An therin lays the problem. People don't like it when it gets harder. An many don't want to get good. Dungeons aren't particularly that difficult. I just find them tediously long. I've got no issue compensating for a shortcoming when it presents itself. I've had to do it even for friends.

Note: Quote my entire post though please. Not snippets. Context is important.

[Reinha]

An therin lays the problem. People don't like it when it gets harder. An many don't want to get good. Dungeons aren't particularly that difficult. I just find them tediously long. I've got no issue compensating for a shortcoming when it presents itself. I've had to do it even for friends.

Note: Quote my entire post though please. Not snippets. Context is important.

The people who lie on the floor dead while the tank soloes everything also find that tedious, and have complained about it. That's what the OP wanted "fixed", they clearly stated they want to solo things on a DRK while the rest of the party is dead. No thank you.

I will continue to quote snippets whenever the rest of the post provides no relevant context for the part(s) I'm responding to.

[Oizen]

The people who lie on the floor dead while the tank soloes everything also find that tedious, and have complained about it. That's what the OP wanted "fixed", they clearly stated they want to solo things on a DRK while the rest of the party is dead. No thank you.

Dark Knight can already do this too.
I view this as a format problem, and I truly think the answer is as simple as giving everyone the ability to res in normal content (and only in normal content), just like in a Variant or Criterion Dungeon.
The healer dying, especially in non-res caster groups is way too impactful for causing wipes. Especially for DPS who cant sustain themselves through raidwide damage.

This changes the dynamic from tank solo to tank resses the healer and everyone moves on from there, and we don't even need to nerf anything to achieve this.

[Ryaduera]

Dark Knight can already do this too.
I view this as a format problem, and I truly think the answer is as simple as giving everyone the ability to res in normal content (and only in normal content), just like in a Variant or Criterion Dungeon.
The healer dying, especially in non-res caster groups is way too impactful for causing wipes. Especially for DPS who cant sustain themselves through raidwide damage.

This changes the dynamic from tank solo to tank resses the healer and everyone moves on from there, and we don't even need to nerf anything to achieve this.

I saw someone suggest Pheonix Downs work in normal content. Perhaps something like that (depending on your fellow players) would be preferable to a "Healer gets up for free" button?

[SapphireWeapon]

The people who lie on the floor dead while the tank soloes everything also find that tedious, and have complained about it. That's what the OP wanted "fixed", they clearly stated they want to solo things on a DRK while the rest of the party is dead. No thank you.

I will continue to quote snippets whenever the rest of the post provides no relevant context for the part(s) I'm responding to.

That is not at all what I said. I never said I should be able to solo the boss while everyone waits.

I said I wanted to be able to keep my party alive if my healer dies. I also said that that's a crappy thing to want and healers should be more relevant overall, but the state of the game is as such that healers are irrelevant if you're playing any other tank. I can't tell you the number of times I kept my DPS alive as PLD healing them with Clemency after a healer death during a boss in a dungeon. Every other tank can sustain their party in a dungeon like that in some way in this situation. DRK can't. That's what I want changed.

Don't put words in my mouth.

[Reinha]

That is not at all what I said. I never said I should be able to solo the boss while everyone waits.

I said I wanted to be able to keep my party alive if my healer dies. I also said that that's a crappy thing to want and healers should be more relevant overall, but the state of the game is as such that healers are irrelevant if you're playing any other tank. I can't tell you the number of times I kept my DPS alive as PLD healing them with Clemency after a healer death during a boss in a dungeon. Every other tank can sustain their party in a dungeon like that in some way in this situation. DRK can't. That's what I want changed.

Don't put words in my mouth.

I did not. You didn't say party sustain, you said self-sustain.

Both of these are macro problems that will require more than just a simple patch to fix, and I get that. And so, in the meantime, what can be added in a patch is self-sustain abilities for DRK. With the game being as it is, DRK needs to be beefed in such a way to survive in a dungeon environment, because they are the only tank who cannot.

If you are also asking to be able to indefinitely heal the rest of the party in addition to yourself, that's even worse. No tank should be able to do that.

[SapphireWeapon]

I did not. You didn't say party sustain, you said self-sustain.

Any reasonable person would read the story in my post and know what I meant. But you didn't read the actual post. You stopped at the headline and kneejerked to butthurt.

If you are also asking to be able to indefinitely heal the rest of the party in addition to yourself, that's even worse. No tank should be able to do that.

Yeah, that's PLD's Clemency for you. Indefinite heals. For free. Doesn't at all take a crapton of MP to cast nor require skill to manage your MP over long periods of time if you're trying to keep three people alive with it. You're basically just a second healer, really. That's absolutely and definitely what I'm talking about and 100% what I want.