Yoshi P - Your next live letter, DT msq and the damage to the brand

[Xellith]

Negative Nancy can u guys just stop bashing dt the msq is done wait for the other patches.

We waited 2 years for it and spent good money on it. If SE wants to give us refunds then Im sure a fair number would take it. If the next patches are an improvement, it still wont make up for the garbage we just paid for. We need to complain to ensure we dont get more of the same garbage going forwards. Either way, Wuk Lamat is a meme, and memes dont die easily.

[Zackneifein]

no they don't... ff9 was a more steampunk setting yet you want me to believe they went all super star trek. ff8 has more visible associations. the wiki entry for eshtar even describes it similar to solution 9.
here just look at it the city. a terrible disservice to both ff8 and ff9. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VCbb9DJ87Q

Thank you, I know of FFVIII. Esther isn't even close to being as advanced as Solution 9.
Only Lindblum is about steampuck. Alexandria and Bloumecia are all about pure medieval fantasy. And Terra is one of the most advanced and scifi place ever seen in any Final Fantasy, the whole plot of Terra is about soul and lifecycle.

[jameseoakes]

Thank you, I know of FFVIII. Esther isn't even close to being as advanced as Solution 9.
Only Lindblum is about steampuck. Alexandria and Bloumecia are all about pure medieval fantasy. And Terra is one of the most advanced and scifi place ever seen in any Final Fantasy, the whole plot of Terra is about soul and lifecycle.

Terra is more alien and other worldly and S9 doesn't try to catch any of that as it's just generic cyberpunk with soul tech added in. The FF9 references just seem to be souless idea taken from notes of the game.

[Zackneifein]

Terra is more alien and other worldly and S9 doesn't try to catch any of that as it's just generic cyberpunk with soul tech added in. The FF9 references just seem to be souless idea taken from notes of the game.

There is more Terra in the Living Memories than S9. And I can agree with your second part, themes and ideas are taken from FF9 but not well implemented.

[Malthir]

Well then the "Brand damage" was happening in Endwalker, not in Dawntrail. Dawntrail in fact saved FFXIV for me because now I have fun playing it. EW was just so boring I saw myself leaving if DT dropped the ball on content. I've been in this forum before, and I was super highly critical of this game both in MSQ and Content. I don't think the MSQ in DT is perfect and I have my crits on it, but it's hard to discuss with so much disingenuity going on here.



That's what you're implying though, that there was so much damage it hurt the brand, and I don't know how you can measure that other than the fact that you feel that you are right in that this expansion sucked and the VAST majority of players hate it, it's such a confirmation bias argument, man. We'll only know if the brand was hurt if there's massive unsubbing, or if no one buys next expansion.



I mean that's your opinion, I didn't find them to be terribly written to the point we should send the writer to a backroom.

It's not my opinion, it's objectively poorly written. In art there exists both subjectivity and objectivity in critique. The writing, on a purely technical level, not just a personal taste, is very poorly written. It's to the point of being a semester 1 creative writing course's don'ts list.

You ask how it's damage, so let me explain, FF14 is a game with the core demo being players who enjoy story dense games. This is the first expac they've ever released to be received this poorly. All scoring and reviews across the web has this as the worst preforming expac. Even positive reviews are commenting on poor writing standards. When you release something that is bad around you core selling feature, it's is going to damage your brand image because in this case your brand is good story writing. A good analogue would be, KFC switching to a new chicken supplier and it's being received poorly, as in most people say the chicken now tastes bad. They don't just serve chicken at KFC, the rest of meals, sides etc are all still nice, but people go to KFC for chicken. To FF14 it's story is it's brand in the same way chicken is KFC's brand. You can as a business shift what your brand is, but that would involve some innovation in other areas which hasn't happened.

So yes DT is going to damage the FF14's brand, it's still early days so the amount of damage is currently unknown, it's unlikely to be unrecoverable damage, it's really going to depend on the quality of the post patch story content. If their story going forward doesn't absolutely slap, and I mean there can be no friction to the players because they are at a point of having almost no good will when it comes to this story. Then that can cause a major issue, especially with a major competitor releasing an expac in a month.

[Volgia]

It's not my opinion, it's objectively poorly written. In art there exists both subjectivity and objectivity in critique. The writing, on a purely technical standard, not just a personal taste issue, is very poor. It's to the point of being a semester 1 creative writing course's don'ts list.

Like what can you say it's objective about Dawntrail's story? That it has characters, scenes and settings? Come on. The writing, pacing and structure is just about the same as Endwalker, divide the first zones into two to get to know their cultures, get one playable dungeon, move onto the third zone into a third dungeon and an epic trial, slow down the story until level 95 where "shit hits the fan", then slow it down again in level 97 to get the major plot points, and then on level 99 you get an extra dungeon and trial, and a final emotional zone to wrap it up. This is as objective as I can get about the MSQ.

You just don't like the story and that's completely fine.

A good analogue would be, KFC switching to a new chicken supplier and it's being received poorly, as in most people say the chicken now tastes bad. They don't just serve chicken at KFC, the rest of meals, sides etc are all still nice, but people go to KFC for chicken. To FF14 it's story is it's brand in the same way chicken is KFC's brand. You can as a business shift what your brand is, but that would involve some innovation in other areas which hasn't happened.

As I said before, it's structured the same way it has been for the past 2 expansions, they have not switched anything. You don't like the vibe, or the characters, that's just fine honestly.

As a matter of fact I think the only thing I will agree with you is that they need some innovation on the MSQ, cuz it was dialogue heavy, there was just so much talking and little action for me to play in the story.

[Malthir]

Like what can you say it's objective about Dawntrail's story?

You just don't like the story and that's completely fine.

As I said before, it's structured the same way it has been for the past 2 expansions, they have not switched anything. You don't like the vibe, or the characters, that's just fine honestly.

As a matter of fact I think the only thing I will agree with you is that they need some innovation on the MSQ, cuz it was dialogue heavy, there was just so much talking and little action for me to play in the story.

No it's not. I've put it in other discussion with other people, but this is a textbook example of:

- Telling instead of showing the audience. This is evident all over the story there are a myriad of examples. Some of the obvious are that most of the cutscenes involve zero action, you're standing stock still while someone tell you for 5m why llama's are important to their tribe. They could have you walking through the village in this cutscene or seeing them use the llama's in ways climbing cliffs but no just static lore dumb. Then there's the other examples of being told how to feel, Wuk is brilliant isn't she. Wow Wuk is doing so well. I'm so impressed with Wuk. This isn't about hating Wuk, the problem is the writing, I shouldn't be told to be impressed by someone, your writing for that character should make me impressed by the way they do things, generally speaking as a writer you should NEVER have to tell the audience how to feel.

- Static characters, aka characters that do not grow or have any functioning development, they just snap to whatever personality the writers have decided is needed for this plot point making them do heel turns and behaviour changes constantly. The cause of this is, Poor pacing. They pad out cutscenes with long monologues repeating the same insignificant plot point multiple times over cutscenes, have long drawn out monologues that go no where or just don't advance the plot in any meaningful way, but when it comes to development they glaze over a characters emotional triggering point in a matter of 1 5s cutscene, then never mention those emotional moments again, this leads the characters to have no introspection and there for no growth.

That's just some quick examples.

You clearly didn't read what I was saying. The story is their brand, if they write a bad story then the brand suffers, regardless of how you are I feel subjectively about the writing. It's objectively poor, as per my examples above. There are many more and written by people with far better writing skills than myself.

[chizLemons]

Like what can you say it's objective about Dawntrail's story? That it has characters, scenes and settings? Come on. The writing, pacing and structure is just about the same as Endwalker, divide the first zones into two to get to know their cultures, get one playable dungeon, move onto the third zone into a third dungeon and an epic trial, slow down the story until level 95 where "shit hits the fan", then slow it down again in level 97 to get the major plot points, and then on level 99 you get an extra dungeon and trial, and a final emotional zone to wrap it up. This is as objective as I can get about the MSQ.

You just don't like the story and that's completely fine.

I recommend reading this thread. It very nicely explains a lot of the main objective issues with the character writing in Dawntrail.

[ServerCollaps]

We waited 2 years for it and spent good money on it. If SE wants to give us refunds then Im sure a fair number would take it. If the next patches are an improvement, it still wont make up for the garbage we just paid for. We need to complain to ensure we dont get more of the same garbage going forwards. Either way, Wuk Lamat is a meme, and memes dont die easily.

what is exactly bad about it?

dungeons amazing
raids amazing
graphic update genius
beautiful maps and sceneries
qol updates
is the fact that you dislike the story, which was fully okay, that dramatic?

[Voidmage]

what is exactly bad about it?

dungeons amazing
raids amazing
graphic update genius
beautiful maps and sceneries
qol updates
is the fact that you dislike the story, which was fully okay, that dramatic?

When people see the story as a big important thing (and apparently quite a number do with all the biggering between those who liked and those who disliked the MSQ) then yes it is dramatic.

I bet that most of the FF14 players give the story quite a high priority and those who don't are in the minority.

It's fine for you to not care about the story, be it positive or negative but come on. This is FF14. There is a reason MSQ roulette has unskippable cutscenes, the expansions are ranked with the story first and the devs making such a huge deal of the expansion stories.
Most of the patch trailers have the story in the big spotlight also.