Dark Knight Megathread

[Oizen]

Oblation is also 10% for 10 seconds while the other tank short mits are usually some weird combination of 15% for 4 seconds and 15% more for 8 seconds.

Oblation is going to catch more damage than the other short mits, duration matters just as much as %.

[Ryaduera]

Compared to what? Oblation is a free mitigation we got when other tanks got upgrades to their short CDs, no other tank has an analog button.

Any tank mechanic that requires a lot of mits, like Mountain of Fire in EX1 or conga line in EX2 currently, DRK is on par or better than other tanks (largely due to it being magic damage and you can abuse short CD on TBN on both). It's self-sustain we're missing, mitigation is not a problem at all.

Compared to other tanks over longer durations and multiple mitigation requirements. PLD is basically also on charges and even in cases of single target burst damage the other tanks still reduce it by more as well. If you use Oblation with Dark Mind it's a difference of .2% damage reduction in the DRKs favor, but with 1 more cooldown and both having a 60 second cooldown (Or recharge for Oblation) which is pretty negligible next to the other effects each tank gets, the healing recovers more than the shielding from TBN prevents in all cases except GNB which has the benefit of damage, but also would take even less with their Dark Mind equivalent if necessary.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...=1#post6534718

Oblation is also 10% for 10 seconds while the other tank short mits are usually some weird combination of 15% for 4 seconds and 15% more for 8 seconds.

Oblation is going to catch more damage than the other short mits, duration matters just as much as %.

This is very true, but also there's to consider actual uptime. 8s on a 25s cooldown is way more than 10s on a 60s cooldown. This matters a lot less for trials and raids, but keep in mind PLD also gets theirs on charges, just not conventional charges. It is functionally the same as charges and in ideal scenarios can be 21s before recharge, but realistically more like 25 seconds, which is less than half Oblation cooldown, being more than twice as accessible is a pretty big deal.

[Oizen]

No I agree, and I view that as be design. I never viewed Oblation as meant to be competitive with with the other lv 82s. Its meant to augment TBN to be so. I also view the ability to use both charges back to back or on two targets as a benefit of it.
I do think the weakness of DRK's defense kit right now is stemming from the MP nerf almost exclusively right now. TBN barely feels available to me. Its fine enough in AOE but when trying to min-max raids I'm not enjoying it.

[Terhix]

(...) which is pretty negligible next to the other effects each tank gets, the healing recovers more than the shielding from TBN prevents (...)

Which nobody disputes, but that's a very different assessment from DRK missing % mitigation or Oblation itself being bad. You could buff Oblation to 20% mit, or heck, why not 30%, making DRK the absolute undisputed king of mitigation, and DRK would still remain the only tank in the game unable to solo a dungeon boss 100 to 0. Whether you are doing large pulls in dungeons or getting auto attacked by a boss in a raid the problem is the same - slow attrition of non-lethal damage eating into your HP that all tanks can recover from except DRK.

Good news is you can easily fix it without any major changes or the job losing (more of) its identity: make Abyssal Drain heal for non-meme amounts and make it usable in raids. If that's not enough give us a regen while standing in Salt and Darkness like it does in PvP, or any of the other suggestions people have given for adding some form of self-sustain to the job.

You don't have to touch TBN, you don't have to touch Oblation, you don't even have to touch Dark Mind - all of these buttons are fine at what they do. I don't know what it is about mits that makes people want every tank to have roughly the same buttons with the same values. PLD has lowest DPS of all tanks and nobody suggests that it should have the same DPS toolkit as GNB, but somehow talk about tanking and suddenly a lot of folks want TBN to be yet another Heart of Corundum.

[Derio]

Oblation is in competition with Equilibrium, Aurora and bulwark. If anything I think Oblation is fine and they should look at Dark Mind changes first

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Oblation is in competition with Equilibrium, Aurora and bulwark. If anything I think Oblation is fine and they should look at Dark Mind changes first

Technically Bulwark is an "Extra CD", which are Bulwark, Thrill of Battle, Dark Mind and Camouflage. If we were to look at the equivalent use for Equilibrium, Aurora and technically Oblation... it's techncially Clemency. It's not a cooldown, but that button fits this category more, in many ways.

But otherwise, yeah, we should be looking at Dark Mind first.

[Oizen]

Oblation is in competition with Equilibrium, Aurora and bulwark. If anything I think Oblation is fine and they should look at Dark Mind changes first

Thats a good way of looking at it. In practice I find that Dark Mind ends up being the button you use to close the gap with the other Shortmits and TBN. Oblation is just the cherry on top.
And honestly I think Oblation has a lot of benefits that are completely slept on by a lot of people. Myself included a long time ago.

[Marxam]

No I agree, and I view that as be design. I never viewed Oblation as meant to be competitive with with the other lv 82s. Its meant to augment TBN to be so. I also view the ability to use both charges back to back or on two targets as a benefit of it.
I do think the weakness of DRK's defense kit right now is stemming from the MP nerf almost exclusively right now. TBN barely feels available to me. Its fine enough in AOE but when trying to min-max raids I'm not enjoying it.

I have the same line of thinking when I first saw oblation despite everyone hating on it back in EW and saying it was a weaker rampart. However I feel they need to extend that same logic and design to TBN. Can you imagine if TBN was on 2 charges and cost no mp?

[rxantos]

I only have one things to say:
BRING BACK PLUNGE!

[Shurrikhan]

I have the same line of thinking when I first saw oblation despite everyone hating on it back in EW and saying it was a weaker rampart. However I feel they need to extend that same logic and design to TBN. Can you imagine if TBN was on 2 charges and cost no mp?

I'm assuming you also mean it'd grant no Dark Arts.

...The second charge would obviously greatly increase its power. The removed MP cost wouldn't change its theoretical maximum power in harder content, but could increase it in softer, as you could potentially get greater total mitigation out of more frequent uses that make partial use of its barrier (e.g., only nearly break it) than fewer uses that make full use of its barrier.

I'd be fine with the latter if and only if we saw some replacement complexity. More importantly, though, I doubt we'd get either without an increased CD.