All Jobs Should Be Like Viper

[Tunda]

Most people can't read I guess..

I said LIKE VIPER I didn't say it should have the same kit

Homogenization isn't allowed and I wish it will not be allowed
I appreciate black mage and reaper because how slow they are

I don't say Viper is better because it is fast but because it is forcing the identity of greedy dps with high speed attacks less button more of a combo based job like fighting games

This is the perfection to me

Homogenization isn't allowed

[Singularity]

I think PCT is the better job design going forward

It condenses its core rotations into a single button so at any one time you can really only press 10 buttons or so but its rotation is incredibly Freeform and complex and it has no redundant actions

VPR to me leans too heavily towards “the class plays itself”

While I like the action priority design of PCT a lot, I would argue there is still some room for improvement in the implementation:

• Fire in Red (combo) and Blizzard in Cyan (combo) could be the same button. They are mutually exclusive depending on Subtractive Palette and you will always have exactly one of the two available. The same goes for their AoE versions.
• Holy in White and Comet in Black could be the same button. As with the combos there is never a situation where you have access to both.
• Creature Motif could be made the same button as Living Muse. You must cast Motif before you can use Muse and you can't cast it again until you use Muse, so there is never a situation where both are available.
• [Weapon Motif -> Steel Muse -> Hammer combo] and [Landscape Motif -> Scenic Muse -> Star Prism] likewise cleanly lock each other out with no overlap in availability so they can each be one button as well.

Taken together (and excluding role actions) that would make the job actually ten buttons, but I'm not arguing that's a bad thing at all. Ten buttons with interactions and decisions to make between them is preferable to me over 30 buttons that you press in a scripted order.

[yoshinoharu]

Viper is the best job design of all time in FFXIV
Why:

1- very few skills makes remembering rotation is easy. Without making the job braindead.

2- no trash skills or mid skills all skills have clear purpose

3- animation is clean and there is no clipping even with high skill speed

All I mean ALL jobs should move to this direction but not in homogenized way

Litterally we have 4 buttons for astro to use cards
We have million other skills with healers kit

We have jobs with identity crisis like dark knight and Machinist and every healer

Viper is the golden standard for perfect design job with limited buttons and clean combos making game challenging and fun

Please do same for other and new jobs

I can agree to this so long as the battle content warrants the simplicity of job design. As someone who is playing Viper this tier, I have been having a blast only because the endgame content is actually engaging enough that I can use the simplicity of the design to actually focus on the entertaining encounter itself and not have to fight against my job as well as the boss.

[ThorneDynasty]

All jobs shouldn't be cater to any one thing. That's the problem with the current job system.

[Magikazam]

Spamming 1111 or 2222 or 3333 is bad
But if you mean spaming:

121
211
122
212

This is not spamming this is perfection for what it is as dual welding job

I fail to see the correlation between pressing 2 buttons that automaticly do 3/4 of your filler rotation for you, and dual welding. I just think it a step to far in oversimplifying jobs. I get why some people may like it, but it would honestly be better if it stayed a viper only thing. I don't want Monk or dragoon to change to a similar gameplay. Just like I would be offended if they turned Black Mage into a clone of SMN.

[Sated]

For like two decades in WoW and FFXIV I've been a champion of reducing button bloat and mass pruning - I hate having too many buttons, the fewer the better. FFXIV PvP is ideal spellbook design - each ability feels impactful and justified.
I'm also a huge fan of condensing linear combos into single buttons, and this has worked really well for every job I've tried in DT so far... except VPR.

I'm only 86VPR so maybe it will change but so far I genuinely hate VPR. The playstyle, the UI, it looks easy but it would take way too much investment to actually learn what does what since it hides so much of that information until the moment you need to act on it.

On paper it might sound like a job I would enjoy but truly I hope its style stays contained to that job so I can enjoy the rest as they are.
The jobs' playstyles should feel different; that's just good design.

[LyraShu]

I don't think it should be the standard, but I do think there are lessons to be learned from VPR. A quick example i think of is for Healers. The thought is that, when you press 1, your first gcd heal turns into a combo ability. You could branch that out to where you have a bit more of an interesting rotation for healers but keep mostly the same kit.

HOWEVER I don't think this should be the standard for each job. SMN already feels like it should be just what it is for now (might be in the minority there), whereas jobs like tanking, you want a full kit available that you may not have to use all the time (for safety!). I feel like I could keep coming up with examples, but I will say, if your argument is that "jobs feel outdated compared to this one" then ya...I feel that one.

TLDR; Cool job, but may not be the standard.

[Tunda]

I feel to see the correlation between pressing 2 buttons that automaticly do 3/4 of your filler rotation for you, and dual welding. I just think it a step to far in oversimplifying jobs. I get why some people may like it, but it would honestly be better if it stayed a viper only thing. I don't want Monk or dragoon to change to a similar gameplay. Just like I would be offended if they turned Black Mage into a clone of SMN.

Black mage is already one of the easiest job to play but not to master!

Black mage is perfect designed job it is high risk high reward job to play

Viper downside that you have to press more buttons to do damage
black mage downside you have to not move while casting or it will be cancelled
this is a perfect scheme design that you play specific job with specific rule you have to follow to make things balance and have different interactions with different jobs

currently BLM damage is bad we are waiting for savage to fix current issues but design wise the job is perfect

you are rooted to do casting to deal massive damage while that you have 2 utilities one is 30% shield one of the strongest mitigation in the game
and the other one is movement ability teleport to party member

the job is easy high reward summon is easy and low rewards because of utilities (i think they should remove them)

look at PVP it is very simple but high reward look at sage and dark knight and bard and machinist and even viper on PVP they are perfect jobs even if you brout the same kit into PVE they will work with as little fixes as 10 to 15 percent

[Raven2014]

I've found Viper to be kinda boring, just mash the same buttons quickly. Though it's probably just not for me.

My current issue with Viper is I haven't find a good arragement on the hotbar to make the rotations flow naturally instead of feel like I'm hitting random button out of sequence.

It's like playing a melee Dancer on steroid at the speed of a MNK.

[Averax]

I would say Pictomancer is damn near perfect as far as design goes. It has a little bit of a bloat-for-the-sake-of-bloat issues. Like the filler casts could be a single button instead of two, and comet/holy could be a single button as well. Because all of these skills are mutually exclusive, you cannot cast one while the other is available.

You can macro em together of course, but that's its own can of worms. I do it because i'm uber casual.

But the free-form nature of the job is very appealing, and the damage output is designed around having downtime.