The healer issue? I really dunno what to put here.

[Supersnow845]

I have really conflicting thoughts about all of it. I'd like for healer gameplay to be more engaging but i'm also ok with it being what it is. Because they're healers..

I think healers have too many off gcd heals for sure. idk why they can't just consolidate lilybell potency into medica at 90 or some bullshit like that.
If you want to heal raidwides and group stacks, then play heal. Like you know what you're signing up for. Nobody is clearing worqor without healers.

It's been this way since i started in 2020, you either like the role of healer or you don't. I feel like a lot of older vets are trying to convince themselves that the game will change but clearly it isn't. Seeing how they dumbed down monk, there's absolutely no way healers are getting changed.

Worqor extreme has been cleared without healers BTW

[Striker44]

Worqor extreme has been cleared without healers BTW

By a random group of average players in DF or by an organized group of veterans who can play with a peak level of skill? When your typical, average player grouping up with other typical, average players can reliably clear an extreme without healers, then I'd feel there's a conversation that needs to be had. But just because something "can" be done by high-level players doesn't make it the norm or worth changing the experience for everyone else.

[Silver-Strider]

By a random group of average players in DF or by an organized group of veterans who can play with a peak level of skill? When your typical, average player grouping up with other typical, average players can reliably clear an extreme without healers, then I'd feel there's a conversation that needs to be had. But just because something "can" be done by high-level players doesn't make it the norm or worth changing the experience for everyone else.

Keep moving that goalpost. Eventually, SE will make it possible to solo an Ultimate raid.

[Supersnow845]

By a random group of average players in DF or by an organized group of veterans who can play with a peak level of skill? When your typical, average player grouping up with other typical, average players can reliably clear an extreme without healers, then I'd feel there's a conversation that needs to be had. But just because something "can" be done by high-level players doesn't make it the norm or worth changing the experience for everyone else.

It’s been done at least 8 seperate times with a pick me up PF group

[ForsakenRoe]

By a random group of average players in DF or by an organized group of veterans who can play with a peak level of skill? When your typical, average player grouping up with other typical, average players can reliably clear an extreme without healers, then I'd feel there's a conversation that needs to be had. But just because something "can" be done by high-level players doesn't make it the norm or worth changing the experience for everyone else.

the vast majority of pf i log on to every night is not doing this , even if it can be done

> 'EX trial still needs healers'
> 'actually it's been cleared without healers already'
> 'Well that doesn't count because I said so' <---- YOU ARE HERE (both of you)

This community sometimes

They gave Shake aoe healing because of the more frequent multi-hit attacks in Savage where it was objectively inferior to Dark Missionary and Heart of Light, especially with the overabundance of magical based raidwides. Admittedly, they went a little far with it but from a balancing perspective, Shake did need the buff. Keep in mind, Warrior's self sustain is not anywhere near overpowered in Savage.

You know what would also have closed the gap between Shake and DM/HOL? Using Physical Raidwides more often. This tier looks to be quite heavy on them (3rd fight especially comes to mind), and so we're likely going to see the reverse problem: WAR is 'too strong' because of the 'buff' to Shake, and DRK/GNB's mitigations hold less value because they don't affect Physical damage.

Want to buff Shake anyway? We have a tool for that now, it's called Panhaima. No, seriously, if we have the ability to have 'layered shields', why not have Shake apply 5 layers of 100p shielding, instead of a Regen effect? That way, any shielding that isn't used (eg if it blocks 3 hits of a multihit raidwide, so 2 shields remain) instead of that 200p being just 'free healing' (detracting from the Healer role's responsibilities) those layers would just... poof, at the end of the duration. They'd protect the party (part of the Tank role identity) but wouldn't HEAL the party (which is the Healer role's identity).

It’s been done at least 8 seperate times with a pick me up PF group

The way they're going with 'well it doesn't count', we'd need a party of only BLMs, played only by IGN or Kotaku staff who have never touched an MMO in their life, and then maybe that would be sufficient evidence for them that healers are, once again, not required for content that is meant to 'require' all three roles

The goalposts get moved so much, they've got a timeshare set up in the Caribbean