Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[Turnintino]

Anyway, I wanted to bring this up for a couple of reasons. One is that ♀ Midlander Face 2 isn't that popular of an option. I was also thinking about the overseas user that posted here who uses ♀ Roegadyn Face 1--another unpopular, albeit very characterful face that gives off a mature, nurturing feeling with delicate features--and came here to voice their sorrow with the graphical update. So this is a plea to look at all faces equally and adjust them accordingly, not just the popular ones. There are players who picked those options who, too, very much loved their character for years. Hell, an even less popular ♀ Midlander option--Face 4--had all the subtle signs of ageing smoothed out of its features. It was the only feminine face in the game that offered that.

First of all, I agree with the entirety of your original post! So well said. But this bit right here really can't be emphasized enough, in my opinion. Every face, every facial feature, deserves due attention and reevaluation. Please do not ignore these in favor of the complaints of the vocal/visible majority. Not all of us have the skill with words or the technical know-how to make detailed posts and diagrams, but it would be as simple as comparing each customization option, before and now, to see where and how each update strayed.

I understand that this is easier said than done; it's tedious work, and of course the devs should prioritize common criticisms first -- and of course it's easier to address those criticisms given in detail. But again, I believe many of these issues are self-evident when given their due diligence. Many posters here have proven it's often as simple as providing side-by-side comparisons or GIFs.

[noumen0nn]

After a cursory glance at some male races in the character creator I am under the impression that there is an even bigger divide between the two sexes in terms of character customization than there already was pre-DT.

I'm still working on my cumulative feedback post, but this is something I took note of as well. Some of the most drastic changes to F midlander face 1, such as the smaller and more rounded jaw, doubly-long lashes, smaller philtrum, and much more triangular nose, all seem like attempts to make the face appear more traditionally feminine and "pretty". What we were promised was that the aim of the update would be to preserve the looks we know, but that simply isn't what happened, and it's clear that the intention was to make sweeping aesthetic changes to suit the artists' individual preferences, such as "beautifying" female characters. And I'm sorry, but that just should not have happened. I don't want my character to be given facial reconstruction surgery to look more feminine, I loved her exactly how she was, as did many people who used the same face.

[CantDecide]

I'm still working on my cumulative feedback post, but this is something I took note of as well. Some of the most drastic changes to F midlander face 1, such as the smaller and more rounded jaw, doubly-long lashes, smaller philtrum, and much more triangular nose, all seem like attempts to make the face appear more traditionally feminine and "pretty". What we were promised was that the aim of the update would be to preserve the looks we know, but that simply isn't what happened, and it's clear that the intention was to make sweeping aesthetic changes to suit the artists' individual preferences, such as "beautifying" female characters. And I'm sorry, but that just should not have happened. I don't want my character to be given facial reconstruction surgery to look more feminine, I loved her exactly how she was, as did many people who used the same face.

I really look forward to your feedback post!

You took the words right out of my mouth; it really does seem like the artists used the update as an opportunity to tweak the faces to fit a specific preference instead of faithfully recreating the tried-and-true originals.

And in the case of face 1, I actually think they made it less beautiful in a mature sense and more neotenous, as if to suit modern asian beauty trends. My character looks like she's from a korean MMO now; which is not to say it's a look without an appeal in its own right, but is to say that it's not what I chose the face for, and it should have been added separately as a new face #6 or something. I feel like a broken record given how much people have asked for options instead of replacements, but it really can't be said enough.

...Every face, every facial feature, deserves due attention and reevaluation. Please do not ignore these in favor of the complaints of the vocal/visible majority. ...it would be as simple as comparing each customization option, before and now, to see where and how each update strayed.

I understand that this is easier said than done; it's tedious work, and of course the devs should prioritize common criticisms first -- and of course it's easier to address those criticisms given in detail. But again, I believe many of these issues are self-evident when given their due diligence. Many posters here have proven it's often as simple as providing side-by-side comparisons or GIFs.

Yes. We could go on forever about all the ways the altered features changed the nature of the faces, and we're all going to get slightly different impressions from them, but what remains constant is that they are just too different from the originals. We were lead to believe something opposite to what the devs delivered.

I would love if they'd restore the original characteristics to the existing face features, and then add the altered ones as new options, because some of them do look nice...just not appropriate as replacements.

[RepairCat]

So I finally got my hands on the Endwalker Benchmark which allowed me to take some more detailed before/after pictures in the character creator instead of having to reenact random screenshots.
This gif is what came of it, highlighting the changes to Au Ra Face 2 (Shape 2, Eyes 3, Nose 3, Mouth 1). The most obvoius ones are, as others have already pointed out in this thread, the change to eye shape, making it narrower on the vertical axis and wider on the horizontal, and the change to mouth shape, making especially the lower lip more narrow and mostly getting rid of the "dimples" at the corner of the mouth.
The change to eyes 3 can be kind of mitigated by switching to eyes 1, which are way closer to how eyes 3 used to be in EW, the mouth changes however, cannot.




Disregard the change in skin tone here, as it seems to be an issue with the EW Benchmark. Ingame the skin tone has not changed between EW and DT.

[CidHeiral]

I have to wade back into this thread to leave some character feedback.

As I've posted before, I'm largely content with the update and I think Face 1 turned out great except for this weird issue with the lips which I've been leaving feedback on since the first benchmark. I finally got to see the raw textures themselves and I am astounded at how the artist could have arrived at this result when referencing the original.

For reference, here is the root issue. Right click and open in a new tab for the full view.



The old model's lips looked like a normal pair of lips.

The new model has the following issues:

1. The lower lip has been separated into two sections, one very dark and one light. The divider between them is very solid and harsh. I have never seen a lip that looks like this in my life. It looks like someone took their thumb and somehow wiped off the lower half of her bottom lip.

2. The lower lip has a horizontal white line going through it which I assume was an attempt at a highlight but it just looks drawn on with a white pencil. That whole section looks very muddy and reads poorly.

3. The top lip has a weird inverted white triangle which I think was an attempt to highlight the shape there, but again it just looks like it was drawn on with a white pencil. It does not exist on the original lips.

This all combines to make a very bizarre looking end result. Sometimes it looks okay when the light hits it in a way that blends that all together, but that's just the light covering for poor texture work.

Here is the actual texture for that face.



As you can see, it's a total mess of light chunks, dark chunks, and mottled lines running through it. It looks like the artist did their rough outline of the texture and just left it at that.

Compare that to the other female highlander faces:





The lip borders are clearly defined, the lip shading is blended into the rest of the lip, and the highlights are subtle, there are no random mottled lines.

I know every artist is going to have their own interpretation of something but I'm struggling to imagine how the artist could look at the original and come to this conclusion, especially when the rest of the face looks pretty great and no other face shares this problem. It looks absolutely ridiculous in cutscenes, it's all I can look at.

What I would like to see changed:

1. Blend out the bottom lip so it matches the original!!

2. Improve the white highlights so they look less drawn on, especially the weird white triangle on the upper lip which should be removed entirely or made extremely subtle. Again it does not exist on the original lips so I don't know why it's there.


PS: If anyone has the raw texture for face 1 highlander from the original models I'd love to see it for comparison.

[MagicMush00]

As i said in another post, I think at least fixing how some lighting conditions affect some characters would do a lot already, there are certain areas for example where the sun shines from above on the character's eyes and it looks extremely weird, which was also present before but wasn't as extreme, while in other places or usually when in some insides the changes feel way better because the lighting is working with them and not against.

[Kaziek]

As i said in another post, I think at least fixing how some lighting conditions affect some characters would do a lot already, there are certain areas for example where the sun shines from above on the character's eyes and it looks extremely weird, which was also present before but wasn't as extreme, while in other places or usually when in some insides the changes feel way better because the lighting is working with them and not against.

Yeah, this alone makes several faces look much worse regardless of whether they're faithful or not. Just a standard sunny day or a light source that's slightly above your character makes all sorts of awful shadows on their face. You'd usually only see that in the old lighting if it was somewhere with harsh spotlights pointing directly down.

[diivuus]

dont know if anyone else is having/noticing a body discoloration issue at least for femras of a certain non-human skintone but its been bugging me so bad

[lunartears]

dont know if anyone else is having/noticing a body discoloration issue at least for femras of a certain non-human skintone but its been bugging me so bad

I'm not using the non-human skin tones but my pale skin often looks sickly and yellow now if that counts for anything.

[CantDecide]

dont know if anyone else is having/noticing a body discoloration issue at least for femras of a certain non-human skintone but its been bugging me so bad

Yes, I've noticed this on my hyur as well. Her face and hands are a different shade from the rest of her body, and there's a visible division on her neck and wrists where the old model ends and the updated parts start. I use the palest skintone option, but I would assume the others have the same issue. It really bugs me, too.