Dawntrail Is A Great Expansion

[Mnemy]

(1/2)

By expansion-caliber, I mean purely that even if the story is too simple, having the "expansion-treatment" of new zones, new music, traveling on foot initially, lots of sidequests and new characters, still makes it feel better than if, say, it was a patch.

I mean that is already a given. This is an expac, they cant just let us buy 40 dollars worth of expac and not give us new zones, new music and a ton of side quest but you see, the problem is this is FFXIV. The MMO that is KNOWN for being an MMO with nuanced story. The biggest thing for every new expac is the MSQ. They shouldn't be giving us a SIMPLE story and especially a story that has REGRESSED in quality when the biggest thing for every new expac is its story.

Well yes, but this is interpretation. We can agree to go along with her knowing we can change our mind if she's in the wrong.

That's the problem you see? The REGRESSION in quality. We have already done this in a way that FEELS like the player has a choice. As I said, In HW it started with us not really part of the Dragonsong War. We were refugees from the Ul'dah that Haurchefant took in to hide in Ishgard from the damned lalafells. But in the end we got drawn into a war because the dragons were about to atk so its either we flee Ishgard or help the people that has taken us in unconditionally and repay their kindness by fighting for them. The story gave us a sense of responsibility, It gave us purpose, It gave the "CHOICE" of siding with Ishgard a sense of weight and seriousness that should accompany such a life and death/COUNTRY CHANGING DECISION. BECAUSE DECISIONS LIKE THAT SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN LIGHTLY.

In DT the only thing they gave is "My homeland is holding presidential election via a tournament, and whoever wins, will be its leader. YOU GOTTA HELP ME!" We don't know shit a bout this woman, we don't know if she is worthy, and apparently SHE ISNT. Even the story acknowledges this and yet WE'RE THROWING OURSELVE IN ANOTHER POLITICAL CONFLICT FOR THIS LION GIRL LIKE, YEAH IT'S NOT LIKE HAVING THE WOL IN YOUR TEAM IS A SURE WIN RIGHT? There is no consideration for the ramifications of support an unworthy candidate, there is not an ounce of thought into this decisions, not even consideration that the WoL siding with a faction is almost a guaranteed success just by their battle prowess alone, and we are doing this just because they said "ADVENTURE? YES! YOU LOVE ADVENTURE DON'T YOU?" That's why I said that this could work if we started with the intentions of just helping Krile get answers and for the adventures those answers will bring, with the WoL and the Scions ending up getting swept up and ended up feeling obligated to help WL to give Tural a better future. Not us starting the story with the intentions of helping an unknown claimant get her throne.

(1/2)

[Mnemy]

(2/2)

I mean you're right, but I find this common in stories and games and films really. Obviously we wouldn't see our real life political leaders take off their jackets, roll up their sleeves and pickup a weapon and go fight a war. But in fantasy that's what they do. Just something I accept at this point.

The thing is, this is Final Fantasy 14. We've already seen them give us well written Leaders that doesnt have to be ALWAYS in the front lines to fight a battle even though they are an exceptional fighter aswell. Examples are Raubhan and Aymeric. and to some extent Hien. ANOTHER REGRESSION TO THE QUALITY OF STORY. They Know when they are needed in the fight and when they are needed by their people. In WL case, she is NEEDED by her people, They need to see their leaders in the city, shoring up defenses and helping the people get back on their feet. but it ended with her packing her bags and going on adventure with us with no thought about helping her brother run a country in its time of need. She just ended up telling us via her thoughts and action the she is unworthy to be a leader even if she's already sitting on the throne. It's just straight up bad writting at this point.

At this point in the game's life they should not be giving us stories this shallow when they have shown us that the can do better than that in the past expacs. It's just not good for an MMO that is TOUTED to be and WELL KNOWN for being STORY DRIVEN.

(2/2)

[Basteala]

Also I said it in another thread, but for positive vibes--I thought the way the Golden City was handled, built up, and revealed was brilliant. I may have a host of issues with other parts of the story, but I thought the MSQ nailed that.

[Havenchild]

DT is a solid expansion. MSQ is better than SB for sure but not by much. Battle content is so far better than SB imo (hopefully the raids keep it up)

Forums overall being forums, some criticisms are fair while others are wildly subjective and even remove context randomly for no reason but to hate on Wuk for the sake of. The forums seem to hate DT, but everyone I've talked to in-game and in Discords seem to enjoy it all including MSQ, generally rating at a 7-8/10.

[Astronis]

I think there was a lot to like. The side quests were mostly pretty good. The Mamool Ja were good. There were good themes in DT that just got overshadowed a bit. It set up a ton of plot hooks to use going forward. The music was *fantastic*. Graphics too. Fights are fun.

[ForteNightshade]

So it's just like the rest of the game. Look back at any time we're allowed to backsass an NPC, and you'll immediately see that either it gets played off as the WoL joking, or another NPC apologizes for it. Or the dialogue loops around or ends until you pick the option that lets it continue. I don't get why people keep calling out Dawntrail for this as if it's some new development.

Because unlike in previous expansions, our opinion is still treated like an illusion of player agency. If we pick the sassier option, sure, Alphinaud might play it off but that feels within character--almost akin to a friend awkwardly trying to downplay your remark. In contract, Dawntrail railroads us into supporting Wuk Lamat at nearly every turn. On the very few occasions we don't openly praise her, another character immediately steps in to say "no, no. They really do love Wuk!!"

While other expansions have been guilty of forcing a direction because they have to given this isn't an interactive story in the vein of BG3 or Mass Effect, they're usually not blatantly forcing our opinion in a specific way. Dawntrail wants everyone to love Wuk Lamat and makes absolutely certain they will.

[Its_Kazzy_D]

My hot take is that I actually prefer DT's story to EW's and the former also got a lot more emotions out of me than the latter.

[Basteala]

My hot take is that I actually prefer DT's story to EW's and the former also got a lot more emotions out of me than the latter.

Honestly I can get that--certainly with Ultima Thule vs Living Memory. They both hurt, but Living Memory definitely hit me more in the feels.

[Gortys]

To depart from all the usual negative posts on the forums, I thought it was a great expansion and all the people I've seen talk about it in the game loved it as well!

It's nice that you like it. As for it not being the "holiday lots of people were dismissing it as."? The Devs told us it was a vacation. Saying the community somehow created this out of thin air is disingenuous.
This was not a "political campaign" either. It felt more like a ritual to become a ruler. I don't think that's a bad thing because we've already had a ton of political intrigue in this game.

As for the curve ball? We were going very fast through the first 2 zones. I thought "wow, we were barely there". Then I remember what happened in lvl 83 of EW and knew that the contest would be over within a few levels. It's a curve ball they used in the previous expansion so not hard to predict.
It does seem that most people complaining either dislike the first or second half exclusively. For me the second half and part of the first were what annoyed me.

To be honest, the negative threads are getting very repetitive. I do think we need some positive threads or threads where we just state what we hope to learn that we feel was glossed over (since that is what YoshiP said they would use for the next expansions).

[CuteBucket]

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Everyone keeps saying how the final zones are the best part but I actively hated them. I wasn't sold on Sphene, Lamat annoyed the hell out of me by being so friendly and trusting with an obvious villain, 90% of the final zone just felt like padding. And the final trial was incredibly anticlimactic.

You're not alone, I disliked the last 3rd of the expansion much more than the first 2/3rds. Yes, there were issues with the earlier plots and it could get a bit too silly and shounen anime flavored for my taste, but I liked just going on a low-stakes adventure with some new friends to see the world. It was fine for what it was. Not great, but good enough. But no, we had to bring in a world ending threat out of nowhere and watch Wuk Lamat (who I tolerated in the first half) destroy any respect and goodwill I had for her by her constant need to make Sphene her new best friend at the expense of everyone else around her. Sphene could have been an interesting antagonist if the game didn't keep trying to be like "look, everyone loves Sphene! She's so nice! All her loyal subjects love her so much! Isn't she cute? Don't you want to be her friend?" NO! I hate her and see right through her obvious and clumsy attempts at manipulation, but somehow Wuk Lamat doesn't! It's so infuriating to have to watch and sit through!