Please no more levels.

[Kes13a]

While yes, levels have always been a thing for both jrpg and mmos, the repeated action of raising the level floor each expansion however does nothing but invalidate past content and efforts put into the game.

The argument for levels is always that we get stronger, but looking at the reality of things.
When expansions drops we will suddenly find trivial mobs that rivals the mightiest of gods.
Our classes/jobs becomes cluttered with random things because the devs HAVE to find something new for them.
And past content becomes trivialized and broken forcing devs to possibly have to put extra effort into fixing it, especially when it's dug up and repurposed like the Ultimate and Unreal fights.

If that 10 level grind have to exist for every job each expansion, then find out something that can work as a substitute for it.

actually.. no, levels have not always been a thing. used to be skill grinding. I am likely wrong, but levels were a thing mainstreamed by WoW to increase the rush by the whole level effect and sound. 100 levels isnt really that much either, Anarchy Online the level cap was 220, years ago.

power creep is what you are finding a problem with I think. regardless.. things from the games past will always become trivialized. would you prefer they take the Destiny route and whole parts of the game are "vaulted"? while there is no good answer for the issue, you have proposed no alternative, no real fix except.. "no more levels". even if they did away with that, a new expansion, because people scream for it, would likely include new jobs, and new content. those two things will cause exactly the same issue you are complaining about here. new content will trivialize old content, new regular mobs will appear to be gods compared to old npcs and the devs would have to put in extra effort to fixing old content.

see? even without levels the issue would remain.

[AmorfaVex]

actually.. no, levels have not always been a thing. used to be skill grinding. I am likely wrong, but levels were a thing mainstreamed by WoW to increase the rush by the whole level effect and sound. 100 levels isnt really that much either, Anarchy Online the level cap was 220, years ago.

power creep is what you are finding a problem with I think. regardless.. things from the games past will always become trivialized. would you prefer they take the Destiny route and whole parts of the game are "vaulted"? while there is no good answer for the issue, you have proposed no alternative, no real fix except.. "no more levels". even if they did away with that, a new expansion, because people scream for it, would likely include new jobs, and new content. those two things will cause exactly the same issue you are complaining about here. new content will trivialize old content, new regular mobs will appear to be gods compared to old npcs and the devs would have to put in extra effort to fixing old content.

see? even without levels the issue would remain.

Just to elaborate on your first paragraph. Leveling has been around since the dawn of CRPG/MMOs. There have been some variants that focus more on skill building, such as Ultima Online (I believe the first graphical MMO, I happened to beta test and play a bit.)

But these games all grew from Dungeons and Dragons, in which leveling was an integral part of the game.

If you reach back to the days before UO, you are looking at the MUDs (Multi User Dungeons), which were text based games where you did level (Gemstone III comes to mind as an example, but it was far from the first MUD.) (Excellent game btw, for people who dont mind reading instead of graphics.)

But leveing is a core part of this genre and the Final Fantasy franchise itself.

[Kes13a]

Just to elaborate on your first paragraph. Leveling has been around since the dawn of CRPG/MMOs. There have been some variants that focus more on skill building, such as Ultima Online (I believe the first graphical MMO, I happened to beta test and play a bit.)

But these games all grew from Dungeons and Dragons, in which leveling was an integral part of the game.

If you reach back to the days before UO, you are looking at the MUDs (Multi User Dungeons), which were text based games where you did level (Gemstone III comes to mind as an example, but it was far from the first MUD.) (Excellent game btw, for people who dont mind reading instead of graphics.)

But leveing is a core part of this genre and the Final Fantasy franchise itself.

far enough, the first mmos I played did not use 'leveling' and I was not aware of it until WoW released.

[AmorfaVex]

far enough, the first mmos I played did not use 'leveling' and I was not aware of it until WoW released.

Alternate leveling has been used in other games as well, in conjunction with standard leveling.

EQ implemented the Alternate Advancement system to avoid the issue of level bloat. In the AA system you accumulated XP after reaching the level cap and you could distribute points to make small adjustments to your character (Very similar to the Diablo 3 system, if you've played that, with paragon points, only much more complicated.)

The AA system, as it applied in EQ, encouraged people to keep playing, even for marginal gains (that did in fact add up after a while) some even rewarded unique mounts. It kept people invested in the game and the development of their character.

Quick Edit: Thinking back on it now, EQ also had a skill leveling system tied into the standard leveling as well. If you used a sword and nothing else for 10 levels, you'd only level your one-hand slash skill (or 2hs as the case may be) and if you found a mace you really wanted to use, you needed to level that up as well or it wouldnt be as effective as a 1hs. These skills were capped per level, so every level you might be able to train another 5 points in the skill. It applied to everything from offensive weapon use, parrying, riposte, swim speed, you name it.

I just dont think today's player base could handle that kind of complexity though, and it seems the devs would agree. They keep it simple, easy, and it all seems pointless.

If done correctly, the player shouldnt feel that way. They should feel that leveling means something. Devs just need to do a better job of implementing that.

[Evergrey]

Alternate leveling has been used in other games as well, in conjunction with standard leveling.

EQ implemented the Alternate Advancement system to avoid the issue of level bloat. In the AA system you accumulated XP after reaching the level cap and you could distribute points to make small adjustments to your character (Very similar to the Diablo 3 system, if you've played that, with paragon points, only much more complicated.)

The AA system, as it applied in EQ, encouraged people to keep playing, even for marginal gains (that did in fact add up after a while) some even rewarded unique mounts. It kept people invested in the game and the development of their character.

Quick Edit: Thinking back on it now, EQ also had a skill leveling system tied into the standard leveling as well. If you used a sword and nothing else for 10 levels, you'd only level your one-hand slash skill (or 2hs as the case may be) and if you found a mace you really wanted to use, you needed to level that up as well or it wouldnt be as effective as a 1hs. These skills were capped per level, so every level you might be able to train another 5 points in the skill. It applied to everything from offensive weapon use, parrying, riposte, swim speed, you name it.

I just dont think today's player base could handle that kind of complexity though, and it seems the devs would agree. They keep it simple, easy, and it all seems pointless.

If done correctly, the player shouldnt feel that way. They should feel that leveling means something. Devs just need to do a better job of implementing that.

ESO uses a similar system.
After you reach max level you instead collect experience in a "Champion Points System".
When you "level up" you get a point to allocate to a multitude of nodes that boosts your characters performance in different ways, like combat, resource managements, crafting, gathering, and so on.
And how they handle gear, since no one gains any more levels and the "Item level" stays the same is that they have a multitude of Gear Sets with bonuses.
More and more sets of gear is added with updates and expansions so people have things to collect when running new dungeons and raids.
Ofc, sets and bonuses always ends up in Meta builds and I'm fairly certain that there are those in FFXIV that would fight tooth and nail to not let FFXIV end up in such a way.

[Chasingstars]

And how they handle gear, since no one gains any more levels and the "Item level" stays the same is that they have a multitude of Gear Sets with bonuses.

Wonder if they are experimenting with something similar. As the splendorous tools have unique effects beyond just stats.