The 1.5s Glare/Broil

[Zolvolt]

You’ve just said “it’s harder now because it was made easier”

You can say it’s smoother and I would agree with you, but it’s not harder because what you used to have to fight for is now given for free

Yeah thats not what I said. I said the difficulty was changed from clunky mechanics where you had very few weave windows, which results in either weaving over a GCD or just ignoring healing a mechanic because it would break your GCD, as well as where big moves = unavoidable dps loss, to what we have now which is you are able to OGCD reliably but you have more abilities to juggle and plan out and use appropriately on top of making sure movement doesn't interrupt your dps. smh

and yes it is smoother. But healers are pressing more buttons. The struggle now is that in 2-healer content people can just get away with not pressing their buttons and making the other healer do it. (or in the case of sage rn just handling every mechanic by yourself without dropping a gcd)

[Amecoeur]

Flavour is the point of having different jobs at all though? Trying to execute your job and role in duties while having different kits is a layer of fun I'd like to have. I wasn't really begging for it maining WHM in 5.x, also.

Wouldn't it make more sense and interesting to expand on their real flavour if you wish to enhance jobs identity?

WHM is vanilla and simple, right to the point, making it new player friendly.
AST with their card system, some delayed healing like Earthly Star, Exaltation, and Macrocosmos that encourage players to 'predict' the fight (or know the fight already).
SCH should capitalise more towards their fairies seeing we don't get any fairy actions in the last two expansions.
SGE's emphasis on dealing damage while healing at the same time.

We should strive for more inspiring ways of diversification. Fixating on cast time that clearly has a major drawbacks in gameplay is boring.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

So why can't have 1 or 2 of them having longer cast time? These four jobs are spellcasters, too :/ Why does everybody has to be 1.5s?

[Zolvolt]

We should strive for more inspiring ways of diversification. Fixating on cast time that clearly has a major drawbacks in gameplay is boring.

I agree.

But also I'd like to remind people that astrologian used to have longer cast times for aspected helios. It was not fun. Longer casts for the sake of longer casts just creates pain points when playing.

[Connor]

Couldn’t they do something like Pictomancer where the casts are normally 1.5s but certain spells or abilities are longer with higher potency? Like WHM getting a Negative Pallet type ability that makes it casts longer and stronger; or Sage doing a reverse Eukrasia.

I think it would be weird to have the same thing on every healer of course but I think it’d be a cool idea for White Mage or Sage

[Azurarok]

Wouldn't it make more sense and interesting to expand on their real flavour if you wish to enhance jobs identity?

What you consider is their real flavour is different from mine it seems. To me, how we make room to heal is just as interesting as the differences in how our heals themselves work.

By clear major draw backs do you mean the lack of weave windows and the lack of mobility? Is there something else I'm missing?

If it's the microadjustments slidecasting offered for those with lower ping then I'd say go with the 2.0~2.2s cast like Rein mentioned, still keeping the weave window off. That or the walk-able casts BRD/MCH have in pvp.

If it's the lack of weave windows that can be addressed with other dps skills. I've been wanting WHM to have instead learned Water on the level they used to learn Fluid Aura, have it be an instant cast spell that matches Stone's potency with a short cooldown. Gain charges of it and/or shorten the cooldown further at higher levels. Maybe even give Aero procs that shortens its cooldown.

[Azurarok]

Couldn’t they do something like Pictomancer where the casts are normally 1.5s but certain spells or abilities are longer with higher potency? Like WHM getting a Negative Pallet type ability that makes it casts longer and stronger; or Sage doing a reverse Eukrasia.

I think it would be weird to have the same thing on every healer of course but I think it’d be a cool idea for White Mage or Sage

tbf I'm the sort that was less excited to find the subtractive pallet and picto spells to have weave space. Thought that would've made stocking up on white paint and having hammer ready more important.

[Tint]

Well yeah when you want to increase the cast times then you have to add movement abilities to the healers. BLM works with long cast times because they have lots of instant casts available, Triple Cast and don't have to save Swiftcast for Raise. Also only 10 seconds CD on their teleport. And as a healer you have to move more than a BLM. You have to adjust for mechanics and then move back in a position where your heals actually reach everyone. Which means you move first and then you use your instant heal.

[Amecoeur]

What you consider is their real flavour is different from mine it seems. To me, how we make room to heal is just as interesting as the differences in how our heals themselves work.

By clear major draw backs do you mean the lack of weave windows and the lack of mobility? Is there something else I'm missing?

If it's the microadjustments slidecasting offered for those with lower ping then I'd say go with the 2.0~2.2s cast like Rein mentioned, still keeping the weave window off. That or the walk-able casts BRD/MCH have in pvp.

If it's the lack of weave windows that can be addressed with other dps skills. I've been wanting WHM to have instead learned Water on the level they used to learn Fluid Aura, have it be an instant cast spell that matches Stone's potency with a short cooldown. Gain charges of it and/or shorten the cooldown further at higher levels. Maybe even give Aero procs that shortens its cooldown.

We might have different take on this topic. I personally don't get why pressing Ruin II over Broil when I need to weave Seraph and Consolation back in ShB so interesting. I'd rather they normalise all the heals like Adloquium and Concitation to 1.5s and expand each class theme and rotation (which is what you might what and to this I agree).

As of our toolkits stand now reverting the healers' main spell back to 2.5s without introducing new actions for movement is impractical. Additionally seeing how bloated our keybinds already are I fail to see it happening without complete overhaul of the classes.

So why can't have 1 or 2 of them having longer cast time? These four jobs are spellcasters, too :/ Why does everybody has to be 1.5s?

In a similar tone why can't everyone have 1.5s cast time? Is 1.5s not enough casting?
It's logical gameplay-wise in a game where movement is paramount and most of the important actions we have are oGCDs.

It dawns on me as I write this down, why don't SMN have more casts? Twelve preserve even RDM have two-third of its repertoire instant. Meh, this should be on another thread.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

We might have different take on this topic. I personally don't get why pressing Ruin II over Broil when I need to weave Seraph and Consolation back in ShB so interesting. I'd rather they normalise all the heals like Adloquium and Concitation to 1.5s and expand each class theme and rotation (which is what you might what and to this I agree).

As of our toolkits stand now reverting the healers' main spell back to 2.5s without introducing new actions for movement is impractical. Additionally seeing how bloated our keybinds already are I fail to see it happening without complete overhaul of the classes.

Decision making. We had a total of up to 3 resources per minute that we could use to 'cheat' to not incur dps loss. SCH had no fast cast spells that deals same or more PPGCD vs Broil III back then. In general, the SCH had the choice to:

• Sling a Ruin II then double weave Energy Drain + <insert heal/mit oGCD> to negate the loss (also minor gain of 10p, which unsurprisingly also alleviates the 1 button spammy to a tiny degree);
• Sling a Ruin II then weave anything that doesn't include Energy Drain and eats the 90p loss per GCD, or;
• Eat a whooping 290p loss by not casting Broil III and opt for Adlo/Succor in that GCD.

These losses are tiny on their own but they add up over time. Seraph also posed an additional nuance where you were required to burn two Energy Drains should you wish to utilize them without incurring loss, unless the SCH uses their Biolysis refresh window to weave. Point 1 and 2 are also done not so willy nilly because you'd like to take advantage of the mobility they grants you simply by being instants & having 2.50s nuke cast time.

In a similar tone why can't everyone have 1.5s cast time? Is 1.5s not enough casting?
It's logical gameplay-wise in a game where movement is paramount and most of the important actions we have are oGCDs.

It dawns on me as I write this down, why don't SMN have more casts? Twelve preserve even RDM have two-third of its repertoire instant. Meh, this should be on another thread.

Apple and Orange. I like choosing a spellcaster healer and expecting an immobile gameplay that I'd inevitably try to optimize for my own fun. ShB was exactly that. Movement was also a paramount resource that we had to... just not spend them unwisely like today's iteration - why worry about mobility and weave space today when they're all freely given? If people were disliking WHM and SCH's 2.5s cast time, they could opt for AST who were the sole 1.5s spellcaster with their own drawbacks unique to them.

Yes, our oGCDs are powerful, which is why I'm on favor on attaching some sort of drawback/cost to them. Trashologification just homogenizes everything into "1.5s Nuke + free weave oGCD". Why have 4 jobs within a role at that point if they're all just going to have a same model but paint in different colors? Sounds like a waste of design space.