Lyse vs. Wuk Lamat

[koichiresh]

The main difference for me in the two is that I felt like not only did Lyse want me there, she needed me there. She needed the support of her friend. Not just to go hit things, but to help her through her vulnerable periods and uncertainties. To give advice when she needed it. Or just be someone she could lean on when things were rough.

As much as I like the base character of Wuk Lamat, I don't have that same connection to her. I don't feel that I was needed or even really wanted most of the time. I don't really feel that I taught her anything. I don't feel that I was any sort of support.

I agree with this tbh. With Lyse, we had the build-up to become friends and companions before embarking on a journey together. With Wuk we only have like 2-3 quests before we go to a new continent with her. Wuk kind of just showed up and was like "Hey, help me win this contest even though I've only known you for like 2 days."

[koichiresh]

I'd have to agree.

Wuk Lamat isn't a genius but she understands the implications of what can happen to her Father's established peace if things go wrong.
She's naive about what it means to be Dawnservant.
She's not naive of the consequences. It's part of her nativity she would seek out the Warrior of Light in the first place.
I mean who's bright idea would it be to ask the person who just saved the star to help you become ruler of a country.

But she's throwing her hat in the ring for her people.
Koana is intelligent but he lacked the understanding of the importance of tradition and culture. Without understanding the peoples for the sake of progress would have caused division and backlash.
Zarool Ja would have thrown the country in wars of expansion making many die in the process for his ambition.
Bakool Jaja was influenced by the fatal flaws of Mamool ja culture and history which would have led to some weird ethno state.

She didn't do it for fun.
She knows what is at stake... she's just not smart or experienced enough to really express it. She has the strength but lacks the courage to wield it.

This is actually very well stated and I couldn't have said it better. And let me be clear, I'm not even really a Wuk Lamat fan...
But we really have to separate and break down the story elements objectively without bringing too much harboring emotion into it.

I get what the writers were going for, even if it wasn't stated in the best way possible. But it's very clear that Wuk Lamat knew the consequences if the other contestants won.
That's why in the end, she allowed Koana to step in because she knew she didn't have the reasoning or intellect that he had.

[Nadda]

The main difference for me in the two is that I felt like not only did Lyse want me there, she needed me there. She needed the support of her friend. Not just to go hit things, but to help her through her vulnerable periods and uncertainties. To give advice when she needed it. Or just be someone she could lean on when things were rough.

As much as I like the base character of Wuk Lamat, I don't have that same connection to her. I don't feel that I was needed or even really wanted most of the time. I don't really feel that I taught her anything. I don't feel that I was any sort of support.

You do help her in many ways people describe as annoying. Assurance.

You're the one who encouraged her idea about the float being the cause for the crops failing.
You're there when she's vulnerable.
You're there when she finally stands up for herself against Bakool Jaja.
You're the one that shows her inherited quality from her Father doesn't come from a keen mind or brute strength but from her desire for peace.

[Voidmage]

Lyse was a badly written characters with flaws but not at our side 24/7.
She had the problem of sidelining the Yda personality and doing a 180 personality flip.

Wuk Lamat is a fanfiction OC with Mary Sue traits and a flat personality on the level of RWBY writing and borderline Yandere with how much she stalks us.
She only speaks the same sentences the entire time the only thing missing was her making a heart shape with her hands.

I take Lyse over her all day.

The writer can keep his body pillow fursona waifu to himself.

[PercibelTheren]

I don't understand the hyper focus on Wuk Lamat. Whether it's Koana, Zoraal Ja, Bakool Ja Ja, Ketenramm, I can't even remember Erenville's mom's name, etc. You're talking about all the same things. And the few times they do come up against challenges or have development, it's so ham fisted and cliche.

This fanbase has a weird obsession with criticizing female characters and comparing female characters.

Bakool Ja Ja gets away with releasing a deadly beast...we turn off the Endless just because Erenville's mom wants to and thinks it might help defeat Sphene (it doesn't and who would even think that?)...Zoraal Ja gets disqualified but just goes into a room and steals and artifact...dawntrail just sucks guys, I'm sorry.

I agree with you about how people are weirdly zeroed in on Wuk Lamat. She isn't the only one with problems. Everyone in Dawntrail is horribly written. I guess it's because she gets the most screentime?

My problem with a lot of the female characters is that they are often horribly written. A lot of the ones I like tend to get killed off. I thought Moenbryda was super cool but the story only gave me a glimpse and then took her away. I liked Ysayle a lot. Like Moenbryda, she's dead. I like Lucia a lot. Alisae is my beloved sassy little sister. Tataru is great. Y'shtola also has her moments. Meanwhile, I was over Ida's ditzy blonde schtick in ARR. I hated Lyse so much and thought I would much rather have M'naago as the resistance leader.

[Kelg]

I liked Lyse better, but she was also not very interesting. I don't really like Wuk Lamat much at all.

[Nadda]

I agree with you about how people are weirdly zeroed in on Wuk Lamat. She isn't the only one with problems. Everyone in Dawntrail is horribly written. I guess it's because she gets the most screentime?

My problem with a lot of the female characters is that they are often horribly written. A lot of the ones I like tend to get killed off. I thought Moenbryda was super cool but the story only gave me a glimpse and then took her away. I liked Ysayle a lot. Like Moenbryda, she's dead. I like Lucia a lot. Alisae is my beloved sassy little sister. Tataru is great. Y'shtola also has her moments. Meanwhile, I was over Ida's ditzy blonde schtick in ARR. I hated Lyse so much and thought I would much rather have M'naago as the resistance leader.

Y'shtola always seems bland to me. Her best quality is being in some way related to Granny Matoya whom I love very much.
To this day I don't understand people's fixation with moonbird (moanbryda)

Tataru is great.
Alisae is great.
Ysayle was... alright I guess.

Yda/Lyse was fine enough they didn't need to create some convoluted back story that Yda was Lyse's older sister who died and then Lyse took her place pretending to be Yda all this time fooling everyone and the only one in the know was Papylimo.
Like that was needlessly complex.
How Lyse became the leader of the Ala Mhigans - was stranger still but I understood what the story was going for.

I have to agree with Turtle I don't understand the fixation on Wuk Lamat. There are many minute flaws that collectively are head scratchers but not the worst I've seen from FF14.

[Isala]

Y'shtola always seems bland to me. Her best quality is being in some way related to Granny Matoya whom I love very much.
To this day I don't understand people's fixation with moonbird (moanbryda)

Tataru is great.
Alisae is great.
Ysayle was... alright I guess.

Yda/Lyse was fine enough they didn't need to create some convoluted back story that Yda was Lyse's older sister who died and then Lyse took her place pretending to be Yda all this time fooling everyone and the only one in the know was Papylimo.
Like that was needlessly complex.
How Lyse became the leader of the Ala Mhigans - was stranger still but I understood what the story was going for.

I have to agree with Turtle I don't understand the fixation on Wuk Lamat. There are many minute flaws that collectively are head scratchers but not the worst I've seen from FF14.

The fixation on Wuk Lamat is due to the fact that the game itself is fixated on Wuk Lamat. You cannot escape her terrible character, even in a zone she's not even in. We finally get a break from her in the cowboy zone, except suddenly, the MSQ still has you hunting down her bracelet, instead of doing literally anything else, and then it's right back to Wuk Lamat. You want to do the final trial, and save everyone like the WoL you are? Nope. Here comes Wuk Lamat to save you from the spotlight. The story has to make every single thing about that stupid cat. Literally the only time that any other character gets development is while she's off screen, but you better believe she'll hurry to fix those mistakes as fast as she can, because you can't have the Wuk Lamat expansion without Wuk Lamat.

Take, for instance, when she gets Princess Peached. You get to hang out with Koana. Who is competent, and interesting, and has character growth and motivation. The very instant they free her? Everyone, him, you, the Scions, immediately become 1D caricatures again, so that Wuk Lamat can be the self insert MC again.

[koichiresh]

Genuine question here (because I have never played FFXI) but wasn't your character in that game always sidelined during story content? As in, you were just supporting main characters? Cause that's the sort of the vibe of that the game had from what I heard...
Nobody complained about that and yet because we aren't the main character in FFXIV just once people are up in a frenzy about it. I guess it makes sense, considering our character has been the spotlight for the base game and 4 expansions. (To add...we do live in a generation with a lot of people with main character syndrome (jk... but kind of not really lol))

Personally, I prefer being a side character so it doesn't bother me too much, but I know some people want to be the center of every epic tale in the game.

My only thought is that if multiple characters were being utilized in FFXI as main characters simultaneously (similar to the Scions) then I can see how that would feel different than Wuk Lamat being the pan ultimate character we need to care about. However, if there were any expansions or storylines solely revolving around a character in that game and you enjoyed it and now all of a sudden you're critical of a new character being in the spotlight for DT, then I think it all boils down to script writing and dialogue.

[DiaDeem]

I miss telling Lyse to shut up