Lyse vs. Wuk Lamat

[koichiresh]

Yeah but like 40 times through the story she goes "I WILL BE DAWNSERVANT". It's clearly something she really wants. I'm not talking about whether it would be earned, just saying that Lyse never showed any desire to be in power, Wuk clearly does.

Regardless of whether she says this over and over (which can get old or annoying) it wasn't contrived from nothing. As mentioned before, the other candidates would have been bad considering. Koana alone, maybe? But he still didn't have any interest in learning and preserving the culture of Tural. He was all about ideas and new thought even if that meant erasing tradition. What you're pointing out is a result of bad script writing/dialogue, not the reason she was doing it in the first place.

[Isseki]

Yeah but like 40 times through the story she goes "I WILL BE DAWNSERVANT". It's clearly something she really wants. I'm not talking about whether it would be earned, just saying that Lyse never showed any desire to be in power, Wuk clearly does.

Why you try to discuss with people about the lore, who clearly have not read/listened to it?

Everyone who even indicates that Wuk Lamat didnt want to be the Dawnservant has skipped like 80% of the Texts/cutscenes.

I mean its literally one of the first things we learn about her, its literally the whole reason she even came to us...

@the dude above me: It doesnt matter why she wants to be the Dawnservant... what matters here is that she wants to be the Dawnservant. And btw she clearly is not only motivated by her brother

[koichiresh]

Why you try to discuss with people about the lore, who clearly have not read/listened to it?

Everyone who even indicates that Wuk Lamat didnt want to be the Dawnservant has skipped like 80% of the Texts/cutscenes.

I mean its literally one of the first things we learn about her, its literally the whole reason she even came to us...

"Why you try to discuss with people about the lore"

I wasn't aware that you were watching us play the game to see whether or not we were reading and paying attention to the dialogue?

[hydralus]

This is true but I would say in the case of Lyse, there's no arc written where she really contends with being a leader either (in terms of her desire, not challenges she faces). She accepts it despite lacking the experience and no one contests it. So there's no real comparison to Wuk in this respect.

... well yeah I wasn't making a comparison, I was making a contrast. I said "The difference between Lyse and Wuk Lamat", not similarities.

[Andevom]

I honestly disliked Minfilia more than both of them. She was given so much importance despite being very boring and hopeless without us, and then they decided to make her the literal voice of god.

[Nadda]

IDC what anybody says, I'm a big fan of both Lyse and Wuk. Most people probably don't even genuinely dislike them, more likely that they just say what other people say and chime in on dissing the characters since other people are doing it, or they simply dislike them because some of the quests that character is associated with are annoying/dragged out etc. It's why I will always have a bit of hatred for alphinaud, because many years ago when I was unwise and inexperienced, I had to walk across like 4 zones to meet with alphinaud when i had 0 gil and no mount. When i finally made it to him, he stood in a room full of people staring at the floor, made me talk to everyone for him, then report back to him while he sat there picking his nose. Kill that little brat off for good and never mention him again.

People complained about minifilia being the secretary of light who never actually did anything besides telling us what to do.
They gave us Lyse, after they changed her appearance (went from face 5 midlander with a mask to unique face midlander when she revealed her identity), who is everything that people said they wanted from minfilia, then they just decided to hate on her after getting everything they wanted. Maybe the players are just misogynists.

So far Dawntrail story is already better than SHB by several units of measurement so large that they are beyond comprehension, and SHB is said to be "the best expansion". All of the dungeons I've done have been an improvement from previous ones. The game looks and sounds better. We got a nice chill questline from 90-95 with lots of exploring and learning about the cultures across the new regions. Lots of pretty sights to see too. I see a lot of people complaining out here but I don't actually see much worth complaining about.

Heavensward was probably my peak for the games story.
Shadowbringers probably a close second.
Then 6.0 Endwalker was basically Shadowbringers part 2.

The rest has been average I'd say. Not terrible by any stretch.

You know I was thinking about it and maybe it's because I leveled that alt through ARR again recently for the first time since back in the day but 2.0's story technically ends on a cliff hanger first half of it is more or less a rehash of 1.0's story. Coming into your own as an adventurer, Meeting the Scions, beating primals then Minfilia gets captured and from there we beat Gaius and stop Lahabrea the three city states reform their alliance in earnest and the "Realm is reborn" post calamity.
then Midgardsomr supposedly awakens - That's where 2.0 ends.
A lot of the things that be built upon in the future for HW and onward happened in the After Story 2.x part.


A lot of the things 2.0 covered Dawntrail repeated in its own way.

• Our primary travel companion is naive and inexperienced in the ways of the world. Seemingly annoying to most the player base (Alphinaud (at the start)/Wuk Lamat)

• Has a Sibling to primary travel companion also trying to make a better world but mildly opposes us only to relent and join forces later on - also has a firey emotional side. (Alisae/Koana)

(Both also take on the roles of their father/grandfather; Gulool jaja/Louisoix respectively)

• Learned about a continent's peoples and its woes on our journey. (Eorzea/Turral . . . technically every expansion but bear with me)

• Defeated a Headstrong military leader bent on world domination (might makes right mentality also both had twin horned helmets oddly enough) and defeated their seemingly immortal compatriot that's gone insane or is but a shadow of their "former" selves over many years and pursues rejoining to save long-deceased brethren. (Gaius & Lahabrea / Zoraal Ja & Sphene)

As I said previously the story starts to fall apart in my opinion from post the Solution 9 tour. There are a few other gripes like why Erenville was so angsty the whole time which felt strange... but he sort of faded into obscurity once Koana sort of took his place in the narrative. But Wuk Lamat grows as a character everything past Zarool Ja was a bit much for her character but it didn't make me think of Wuk Lamat as stealing the spotlight or whatever which I've heard people say about the final trial.

A character can be hit or miss, ultimately it can be difficult when making a new story to have your older more established characters not outshine the new, with 10 years of development be impossible for newer ones to feel as endearing to us as the ones we know. In doing so a lot of the focus needs to be taken away from the Scions so that other characters can be introduced. Wuk Lamat was the only real character to follow a story about, she's the whole reason we're here to help her right?

Then people are like "Tch I can't believe I got to help this stupid b**ch all the time"

Granted wish Erenville could have had something going on also but like they dropped the ball with him. Krile got her catharsis I felt. Wasn't the primary focus but it was always being brought up throughout.

In my honest opinion most the Scions didn't need to be in this story. I felt for example the Twins doing their work in reconstituting Garlemald was a worthy endeavor and a good place to leave them as I felt like their arcs were sort of over.
I didn't really understand why Graha Tia stayed behind considering he keeps baiting us saying he wants to go on our "next adventure" and then only seems to materialize when the world is ending. (love him to bits but what a wasted opportunity not having him along)
Y'shtola not wanting to go to the golden city after committing herself to "seeing alllll the reflections" was disappointing. (and I don't even really like Y'shtola she's quite bland)
Estinien made sense to sideline since he plays the role JRPGs have of the strong party member who joins up at the end. Yet that doesn't really happen and then he just materializes for the second trial for some reason.

I know I'm going waaaay off tangent but I meant to say the story had its flaws. But I don't believe especially far as the first half is concerned that Wuk Lamat was one of those issues. I mean between Erenville's clearly dead mom pretending to be alive only to be secretly dead (which wasn't a surprise at all) to Sphene being good, then bad, then good again, then bad again and at last good in the end was weird. Zarool Ja having a son (Literally how?) - And Zarool Ja and Wuk Lamats relationship as siblings not being explored more. Bakool Jaja being forgiven was also weird.

[Isseki]

"Why you try to discuss with people about the lore"

I wasn't aware that you were watching us play the game to see whether or not we were reading and paying attention to the dialogue?

Because I dont need to watch you guys play the game if you guys are implying that Wuk Lamat doesnt wanted to be the Dawnservant, because she clearly does. Its literally mentioned multiple times.
And she also clearly does it not only because of her brother being a warmonger but to keep her fathers legacy.

Its like you guys are trying to say Shrek is red when he is clearly green...

[koichiresh]

I honestly disliked Minfilia more than both of them. She was given so much importance despite being very boring and hopeless without us, and then they decided to make her the literal voice of god.

I actually couldn't agree more with this point, Minfilia's major role was shoehorned and kind of forced into the plot line for some strange reason. She was already a good character without being a high profile fighter. It's actually refreshing when characters don't fight because it makes the world feel more like a breathing ecosystem of different jobs and people. So seeing her get such a large role and be forced on us to accept was quite strange.

[koichiresh]

Because I dont need to watch you guys play the game if you guys are implying that Wuk Lamat doesnt wanted to be the Dawnservant, when its literally mentioned multiple times.

Its like you guys are trying to say Shrek is red when he is clearly green...

Lol, Nobody is saying that she didn't want to be Dawnservent. But to say she wanted to be one for fun isn't necessarily accurate either. As mentioned she said at the end of Endwalker the stakes of the other contestants winning lol. Read my previous posts.

Edited question: What other motivation did she have besides preventing the bad contestants from being dawnservant?

[TaleraRistain]

The main difference for me in the two is that I felt like not only did Lyse want me there, she needed me there. She needed the support of her friend. Not just to go hit things, but to help her through her vulnerable periods and uncertainties. To give advice when she needed it. Or just be someone she could lean on when things were rough.

As much as I like the base character of Wuk Lamat, I don't have that same connection to her. I don't feel that I was needed or even really wanted most of the time. I don't really feel that I taught her anything. I don't feel that I was any sort of support.