Lyse vs. Wuk Lamat

[hydralus]

IDC what anybody says, I'm a big fan of both Lyse and Wuk. Most people probably don't even genuinely dislike them, more likely that they just say what other people say and chime in on dissing the characters since other people are doing it, or they simply dislike them because some of the quests that character is associated with are annoying/dragged out etc. It's why I will always have a bit of hatred for alphinaud, because many years ago when I was unwise and inexperienced, I had to walk across like 4 zones to meet with alphinaud when i had 0 gil and no mount. When i finally made it to him, he stood in a room full of people staring at the floor, made me talk to everyone for him, then report back to him while he sat there picking his nose. Kill that little brat off for good and never mention him again.

People complained about minifilia being the secretary of light who never actually did anything besides telling us what to do.
They gave us Lyse, after they changed her appearance (went from face 5 midlander with a mask to unique face midlander when she revealed her identity), who is everything that people said they wanted from minfilia, then they just decided to hate on her after getting everything they wanted. Maybe the players are just misogynists.

So far Dawntrail story is already better than SHB by several units of measurement so large that they are beyond comprehension, and SHB is said to be "the best expansion". All of the dungeons I've done have been an improvement from previous ones. The game looks and sounds better. We got a nice chill questline from 90-95 with lots of exploring and learning about the cultures across the new regions. Lots of pretty sights to see too. I see a lot of people complaining out here but I don't actually see much worth complaining about.

Happy for you, man.

[Turtledeluxe]

Well, the major difference is that Lyse never asked to be a leader. The old guy who died just kinda made her the leader of the resistance because he knew her father. Now what should have happened is someone else go, "What? No that's dumb." But nobody else wanted the job, I guess.

And Wuk Lamat did not ask to be Dawnservant. We quite literally helped her become Dawnservant through action. The adversity was light but it existed. Certainly one of the blows to her leadership was being unprepared for Zoraal Ja' s assault and the story spends significant time showing you that. She gets her own keystone stolen. The hate itself is contrived.

[hydralus]

And Wuk Lamat did not ask to be Dawnservant. We quite literally helped her become Dawnservant through action. The adversity was light but it existed. Certainly one of the blows to her leadership was being unprepared for Zoraal Ja' s assault and the story spends significant time showing you that. The hate itself is contrived.

... eh? Yeah she did. She traveled halfway across the world with the sole purpose to find help to become Dawnservant.

Ah perhaps I should change my phrasing. Lyse didn't -want- to be a leader, it was forced on them. Wuk wanted to be the Dawnservant.

[Turtledeluxe]

... eh? Yeah she did. She traveled halfway across the world with the sole purpose to find help to become Dawnservant.

Ah perhaps I should change my phrasing. Lyse didn't -want- to be a leader, it was forced on them. Wuk wanted to be the Dawnservant.

Wuk Lamat did not invent the rite of succession nor did she make herself a candidate. She had no expectation of being handed thr throne, she wanted to earn it. Yes it would be better to say she wanted it. But the other characters and Wuk herself do acknowledge her shortcomings, however superficial it may be. A lot of the story is superficial...

[koichiresh]

Wuk Lamat did not invent the rite of succession nor did she make herself a candidate. She had no expectation of being handed thr throne, she wanted to earn it. Yes it would be better to say she wanted it. But the other characters and Wuk herself do acknowledge her shortcomings, however superficial it may be. A lot of the story is superficial...

I actually sort of agree with this here. The Rite of Succession was made for the Dawnservent's children (with the exception of Bakool Ja Ja) to inherit. In fact, the main reason Wuk Lamat did it was to prevent any contestant who wanted to go to war or divide the nation from adhering to the throne. That was told at the end of Endwalker right before Dawntrail begins.

That being said, she could have avoided the whole Rite if she wanted, but she chose not to because she knew other candidates taking the throne would be bad for not only Tural, but for the rest of the world.

[hydralus]

Wuk Lamat did not invent the rite of succession nor did she make herself a candidate. She had no expectation of being handed thr throne, she wanted to earn it. Yes it would be better to say she wanted it. But the other characters and Wuk herself do acknowledge her shortcomings, however superficial it may be. A lot of the story is superficial...

Yeah but like 40 times through the story she goes "I WILL BE DAWNSERVANT". It's clearly something she really wants. I'm not talking about whether it would be earned, just saying that Lyse never showed any desire to be in power, Wuk clearly does.

[koichiresh]

Yeah but like 40 times through the story she goes "I WILL BE DAWNSERVANT". It's clearly something she really wants. I'm not talking about whether it would be earned, just saying that Lyse never showed any desire to be in power, Wuk clearly does.

Regardless of whether she says this over and over (which can get old or annoying) it wasn't contrived from nothing. As mentioned before, the other candidates would have been bad considering. Koana alone, maybe? But he still didn't have any interest in learning and preserving the culture of Tural. He was all about ideas and new thought even if that meant erasing tradition. What you're pointing out is a result of bad script writing/dialogue, not the reason she was doing it in the first place.

[Isseki]

Yeah but like 40 times through the story she goes "I WILL BE DAWNSERVANT". It's clearly something she really wants. I'm not talking about whether it would be earned, just saying that Lyse never showed any desire to be in power, Wuk clearly does.

Why you try to discuss with people about the lore, who clearly have not read/listened to it?

Everyone who even indicates that Wuk Lamat didnt want to be the Dawnservant has skipped like 80% of the Texts/cutscenes.

I mean its literally one of the first things we learn about her, its literally the whole reason she even came to us...

@the dude above me: It doesnt matter why she wants to be the Dawnservant... what matters here is that she wants to be the Dawnservant. And btw she clearly is not only motivated by her brother

[Turtledeluxe]

Yeah but like 40 times through the story she goes "I WILL BE DAWNSERVANT". It's clearly something she really wants. I'm not talking about whether it would be earned, just saying that Lyse never showed any desire to be in power, Wuk clearly does.

This is true but I would say in the case of Lyse, there's no arc written where she really contends with being a leader either (in terms of her desire, not challenges she faces). She accepts it despite lacking the experience and no one contests it. So there's no real comparison to Wuk in this respect. To be clear, you should hate Lyse way more than Wuk if this is genuinely a big deal.

Also I didn't say Wuk Lamat didn't want to be the winner. I said she didn't ask for it and expect it to be automatically given. She goes through the rites fair and square like every other claimant. People acting like Wuk Lamat never struggles are the ones who skip.

[koichiresh]

Why you try to discuss with people about the lore, who clearly have not read/listened to it?

Everyone who even indicates that Wuk Lamat didnt want to be the Dawnservant has skipped like 80% of the Texts/cutscenes.

I mean its literally one of the first things we learn about her, its literally the whole reason she even came to us...

"Why you try to discuss with people about the lore"

I wasn't aware that you were watching us play the game to see whether or not we were reading and paying attention to the dialogue?