The 1.5s Glare/Broil

[Silver-Strider]

Snip

What exactly are you trying to say in this because it seems like a lot of strawmans stitched together to try and make something resembling a point. What exactly would change about combat encounters if they reverted back to a 2.5s cast time on our filler spell? Movement requirements weren't exactly uncommon in ARR, HW or SB content before the change to our cast times so what's the difference in ShB content and beyond in that regard? Our Healing GCDs at that time also had the same 2.5s cast (or longer in some cases) as our filler spell, so what exactly does that have to do with whether we DPS or Heal? What does it matter if you heal with a GCD or oGCD when the end result is you're still healing to clear content, with the only difference being that GCD healing makes it more likely to hit enrage and failing than oGCD weaving. If anything, they need to update GCD heals to be DPS neutral so that they fit into the fight design enforced by the game since its inception, because it's been mathematically proven several times that the minimum ilvl that the Devs set to clear content would be impossible UNLESS the healer was also DPSing and even in the cases when content could theoretically be cleared without Healer DPS, the other players in the group would need to be at the highest possible percentile to actually clear it, making it virtually impossible for 99% of players to ever do that content in the 1st place. The Devs aren't going to change that anytime soon.

[Warlyx]

putting the square in the square hole.

play rdm

https://youtu.be/KUVI5ukXcRI?t=61

[Zolvolt]

I don't understand this anti 1.5 sec cast that people have. On sch having to ruin II just to use my aetherflow was not fun to me. Ruin II + swift cast + energy drine into broil + energydrain was just a whole lot of no thank you.
Especially with astro too. There were so few instant casts you just didn't pair your card actions with a GCD most of the time. Dropping GCD's to ogcd never felt good.

Y'all really wanna go back to that? Honestly?

We might press Broil a WHOLE lot now, but we're also using a ton more OGCD's. The APM of healers is so much higher than back in the 2.5s days. I love that we're pressing more buttons than we used to and I love that the annoying parts of trying to weave were eliminated.

[Azurarok]

I don't understand this anti 1.5 sec cast that people have. On sch having to ruin II just to use my aetherflow was not fun to me. Ruin II + swift cast + energy drine into broil + energydrain was just a whole lot of no thank you.
Especially with astro too. There were so few instant casts you just didn't pair your card actions with a GCD most of the time. Dropping GCD's to ogcd never felt good.

Y'all really wanna go back to that? Honestly?

We might press Broil a WHOLE lot now, but we're also using a ton more OGCD's. The APM of healers is so much higher than back in the 2.5s days. I love that we're pressing more buttons than we used to and I love that the annoying parts of trying to weave were eliminated.

I'm saying there were different approaches they could've done to achieve weave windows instead of making it the same as AST. SCH's my least played healer so I was a lot less sure about that one though. I put the RuinII bit since I had the impression there are folks here that liked having to think about trading off resources one way or another with that particular job. Maybe it could have a shorter instant cast DoT that can have its duration extended to a degree with subsequent uses? I'm sure there's far better approaches for it than anything I could think of.

[Supersnow845]

I don't understand this anti 1.5 sec cast that people have. On sch having to ruin II just to use my aetherflow was not fun to me. Ruin II + swift cast + energy drine into broil + energydrain was just a whole lot of no thank you.
Especially with astro too. There were so few instant casts you just didn't pair your card actions with a GCD most of the time. Dropping GCD's to ogcd never felt good.

Y'all really wanna go back to that? Honestly?

We might press Broil a WHOLE lot now, but we're also using a ton more OGCD's. The APM of healers is so much higher than back in the 2.5s days. I love that we're pressing more buttons than we used to and I love that the annoying parts of trying to weave were eliminated.

The APM of the healers has barely changed

The average APM of a SCH during edens promise was 35 the average APM of a SCH during Athena was 34.2

Substituting out broil was ruin 2 to generate weave space didn’t change APM it just flattened the skill curve

[Tint]

Well I like the 1.5 seconds cast timer on WHM because it makes movement easier. I have the first world problem of living very close to the EU servers and I simlpy can't slide cast reliable. Sometimes it works and sometimes it cancels my cast anyway.

Was way easier back in the day when the EU servers were located in Canada :x

Being able to weave is a bonus I guess.

[Zolvolt]

The APM of the healers has barely changed

The average APM of a SCH during edens promise was 35 the average APM of a SCH during Athena was 34.2

Substituting out broil was ruin 2 to generate weave space didn’t change APM it just flattened the skill curve

It didn't flatten the skill curve. the uptime and the way healers moved has drastically changed with the 1.5s change. The skill requirement of healers didn't get easier, it just changed. I'd alos like to remind you that the average APM of players is lower than what they should be. The average healer in logs is GCD healing and not properly managing their OGCD's which results in a lower APM.

Just for example, when I play astro on ex2 in DT, I usually have an APM of 39. When I play sch with astrologian as my cohealer, they always hit between 31-33 APM.
39 APM over a 9 minute fight is 351 casts. 33 APM over a 9 minute fight is 297 casts. It's a big difference, and you can get away with not using your abilities as a healer. Even just a 6APM difference is really big.

[Supersnow845]

It didn't flatten the skill curve. the uptime and the way healers moved has drastically changed with the 1.5s change. The skill requirement of healers didn't get easier, it just changed. I'd alos like to remind you that the average APM of players is lower than what they should be. The average healer in logs is GCD healing and not properly managing their OGCD's which results in a lower APM.

Just for example, when I play astro on ex2 in DT, I usually have an APM of 39. When I play sch with astrologian as my cohealer, they always hit between 31-33 APM.
39 APM over a 9 minute fight is 351 casts. 33 APM over a 9 minute fight is 297 casts. It's a big difference, and you can get away with not using your abilities as a healer. Even just a 6APM difference is really big.

That’s an entirely different point, I’m refuting your claim that APM on the healers went up because you substituted broil for more freedom in oGCD usage, this is just simply not true given the stats for promise vs anabeisos

1.5 second cast made healing easier and uptime easier and offered nothing in exchange, it simply made the healers easier, there is no two ways about it, the idea that a worse player had a lower APM means literally nothing in this context

[Zolvolt]

That’s an entirely different point, I’m refuting your claim that APM on the healers went up because you substituted broil for more freedom in oGCD usage, this is just simply not true given the stats for promise vs anabeisos

1.5 second cast made healing easier and uptime easier and offered nothing in exchange, it simply made the healers easier, there is no two ways about it, the idea that a worse player had a lower APM means literally nothing in this context

This is just inaccurate. Think about it, slide-casting is something that can be done to great effect on every single broil cast now. Previously the amount of time you have to slide cast was significantly lower and results a lot of time in simply using ruin II to move a lot instead of now where you have to manage and even pre-plan your movement to upkeep dps. OGCD-covering of raid mechanics is a much bigger deal now than previously as well. In cases of astro and whm in particular the only options were simply reapplying your dot to get in your needed weaves without losing dps. and in sch's case it meant dropping damage for your mandatory weaves leading to an even worse case of what we have now "just let the other healer do it". While this problem still exists today in terms of casting GCD heals, it no longer exists in terms of casting OGCD heals. Which means more buttons are pressed more often.

All that is to say that the change from 2.5s to 1.5sec lead to many changes in healer gameplay that were beneficial for healer gameplay. We did not lose something for nothing.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

My opinion is one that would garner the hate of many - from casuals, meta slaves, to optimizers: yes I prefer to have 2.00 - 2.40s cast time (not 2.5s because caster tax is sneaky!) on WHM and SCH. Having to think about when I'm going to use my mobility/weaving tools as effectively & efficiently as possible to mitigate potential loss kept my mind from being too fixated on 1 buttons spam. It was exactly like that in ShB. WHM had less lilies that they can't just blow off willy nilly & had to account Clipsize-movement range. SCH had to utilize Ruin II+ED+<insert oGCD> to negate their loss as much as possible, and still have the lossy instant Ruin II should they REALLY need that mobility and weaving space but not as much of a loss vs not casting anything. AST had the unique 1.5s because they need those weaving slots - they get to freely spend their oGCDs. In exchange to that their personal DPS was the worst of the three, and had to rely on their party to be decent - regardless, this 1.5s reminds me "Oh I'm playing an AST now!" and boy do that felt good to actually have something slightly different within the role.

1.5s cast time - a.k.a. what I like to dub as "Trashologification" in EW - sticks out like a sore thumb because all of those previously required thoughts no longer matters in addition to devaluing some of their own interplay (WHM's lilies, SCH's Ruin II being less used) and thus making the 1 2 1 1 1 1 felt even more palpable.

"Why consider using lily for movement when I can slidecast?"
"Why consider using Ruin II to negate 'potential loss' when 1.5s cast time on Broil in its own virtue have effectively doomed Ruin II into becoming 'always loss'?"

If I had the magick wand, my ideal rough scenario is to dial back WHM and SCH's filler nuke up to 2.00s. How each of them going to maximize the use of their weaving, healing, and mobility is what would set them apart such as:

WHM

• Lilies spells.
• Personal buff timer that requires a cast of a different spell at 1.5s time. A loss if spammed, but rewarding if able to upkeep.
• Instant cast of a partial refund spell whenever lossy GCD heal is cast.

SCH

• Shorten Biolysis timer. 24s or 27s is good
• Gives 2nd DPS gain DoT that's both 1.5s cast time & does not share Biolysis' timer. 18s or 21s is good.
• Gives 3rd DPS neutral DoT that's both instant and have pretty short timer. I'd give this 12s.
• The more DoT active on target, the stronger Broil casts gets, maxes out at 3 total DoT for maximum dps increase. And yes they're all spreadable.
• Ruin II is brought up as DPS neutral as possible but costing twice the amount of Broil's MP cost.

AST - skipped
I think it's fine to keep them the perpetual 1.5s caster.

Idk about SGE. These were all ideas that was written very early in EW as a form of my dissatisfaction of the changes brought up by 6.0. B’sides, we’re still spellcasters. WHM’s animation in particular are heavily tailored toward longer cast & it’s honestly hilarious to see your character bend like that in PoM window lmao.

All of that being said, what my suggestion intended to do is to make their weaving & mobility game slightly different than one another & does not come to you freely. Again, we’re spellcasters. We should not be weaving oGCDs like candies. Leave that privileged to the mobile physical jobs.