Unpopular Opnion: Dawntrail MSQ one of the best yet! [Spoilers]

[Ayalu]

Can't wait to compete against our fellow Scions! Oh boy! -_-

I like the MSQ it did grabed me and i was invested. But yeah the "Compete against your Fellow Scions" Part wasnt really there.
Maybe it was planned to be bigger originaly but it certainly wasnt at the end.

[ThorneDynasty]

I don't even really care they dropped the Scion vs. Scion rivalry they teased. I mean, they also teased ShB being a villain arc of some kind, if I recall correctly, and hoo-boy would it have been cringe if they had to force that just because they felt married to the idea. I can see why you sometimes have to drop ideas once you see how the story develops.

No, the problem is we got nothing else in its stead. In fact the Scions outside of G'raha and Krile have no real reason to be around. It's fine if they had utilized the characters differently than they first marketed. Just using them as props is not it however.

[Kaecilius]

Up until now in the story, almost every single main antagonist wouldn't have existed, had they stepped back and taken the time to learn about the people they were subjugating, what those cultures wanted, and why they did the things they did. (Notwithstanding Zenos because he's just insane and we love him for it)

Uuuh...

"Look at me! I have lived a thousand thousand of your lives! I have broken bread with you, fought with you, grown ill, grown old! Sired children and yes, welcomed death's sweet embrace. For eons I have measured your worth and found you wanting! Too weak and feeble-minded to serve as the stewards of any star!"

[adamisapsycho]

Sadly, there are people who cannot comprehend that their opinions on the story are just that, opinions. They always look for validation that others think the same and that often lands them in a bubble where their opinion gets constantly reinforced. That, unfortunately leads to the silly notion, that their opinion is not just an opinion, but a fact instead. When they start believing that, the nitpicking begins, because suddenly, it's not that "I didn't like the story", or "the story is not for me" no, the story is garbage because it didn't make ME, the supreme arbiter of quality like it.

Same goes to the characters you don't like. It doesn't matter what the character does, whether it's good, bad or anything inbetween, you will always see it in the worst possible light. The ridiculous overreaction to Wuk Lamat reminded me of the american version of "the Office", where there is this one character named Toby who works in HR of the company, and no matter what he does, Michael hates it, just because he has this irrational, petulent hatred of him. Wuk Lamat is the Toby of FFXIV.

Now, I played this game since the start, and before that I have played every other Final Fantasy game, so I didn't come to this with an mmo background, but rather as a Final Fantasy fan, and as such, I can tell you that this approach and tendency to overreact, rage and nitpick flaws has been part of the Final Fantasy fandom for the past 25 years, and maybe even more. I still remember how much hatred FFXII got online after it came out, how nitpicky people got about FFVIII (because it wasn't like VII), how FFXIII was treated for being too linear, (when same people were praising FFX, which is even more linear) or how offended people got about FFXV, because they wanted VersusXIII instead. The uniqueness of this series is unfortunately very conducive to this behaviour, and very often, someone who calls themself a "Final Fantasy fan" is really only a fan of one or two of the games and hates most others. Final Fantasy series is not for everyone, and this game is the same.

People often complain about FFXIV community, that it's a cult and you can't complain about the game or you get attacked, but a lot of those "attacks" stem from the fact that people are complaining about problems that are not problems in the eyes of others. And that is especially true when it comes to the story elements and characters. Now in a game where the devs do listen to the fan feedback, that may result in them making changes based on opinions of a loud minority, that could potentially ruin the game for most. Not all feedback is valid, and filtering out to the whining, moaning and complaining from useful critique is, I'm sure pretty difficult for the devs.

tbc

[adamisapsycho]

part deux
As to my opinion of Dawntrail, I loved the story. I played it through without looking at anyone elses opinions, because why would that matter to my enjoyment, and I haven't witnessed any negativity in game as I was playing it. (Mind you, I wasn't looking for it) Sure, it's not as good as Heavensward or Shadowbringers, but it does not mean it's therefore the worst thing ever. Being not as good as the best means a hell of a lot more than just that. The usual complaints I see now about the game can be either summed up as personal opinions or preferences, nitpicking a character you didn't like or the ever present nowadays "pacing" complaint. "Pacing" has always seemed to me to be an equivalent of saying "Ew, there's reading in this? Where is my bing bing wahoo?". The story of the game also isn't "woke" as some people seem to indicate, it has some rather standard, neutral politics that Final Fantasy series had forever. As to Wuk Lamat, I have seen many people say she's a "Mary-Sue", and to those, I can only say one thing- go and learn what a Mary-Sue is before throwing that label around. She's insecure, aware of her limitations, aware that the others are better, aware she doesn't know all the answers, learns things and grows as a person, and most of all, asks others for help (complainers would know that if they didn't skip the story, or payed closer attention to it). Any one of those things prevent her from being a Mary Sue and she has the lot. It's okay to not like the character, but you don't have to make up reasons for it.

Now lastly, the situation with the reviews is pretty annoying to say the least, the game is definitely being review-bombed for whatever reason, opinion about the story, character preference or the trans va stuff. I honestly don't know what grinds people's gears today and I'm too old to give a crap. Now, with many negative reviews, that are perceived to be intentional review-bombing being deleted, something review-aggregate websites have done for a while, it makes players who are unhappy with this expansion believe they're being supressed and pushes them even further into rage. And to make matters even worse, with many complaints having to do with Wuk Lamat's english VA being trans, it provides the pretentious brigade of woke gaming bloggers with easy ammunition to shout "transphobes!", so congratulations, you made it easier for them.

So tl-dr, learn what's the difference between facts and opinions, and stop whining, it's annoying.

[Gortys]

Uuuh...

"Look at me! I have lived a thousand thousand of your lives! I have broken bread with you, fought with you, grown ill, grown old! Sired children and yes, welcomed death's sweet embrace. For eons I have measured your worth and found you wanting! Too weak and feeble-minded to serve as the stewards of any star!"

Not to mention:
"As the bearer of Azem's crystal, you may consider your duty to see at least that much. I certainly did."

The twins, especially Alphinaud, are constantly trying to learn about the culture of others. And wasn't understanding to bring about peace a major Alisaie trait up until EW?

[Cerbolt]

I get liking dawntrail, what I don't get is thinking it's the best expansion.

[Malthir]

Sadly, there are people who cannot comprehend that their opinions on the story are just that, opinions. They always look for validation that others think the same and that often lands them in a bubble where their opinion gets constantly reinforced. That, unfortunately leads to the silly notion, that their opinion is not just an opinion, but a fact instead. When they start believing that, the nitpicking begins, because suddenly, it's not that "I didn't like the story", or "the story is not for me" no, the story is garbage because it didn't make ME, the supreme arbiter of quality like it.

Same goes to the characters you don't like. It doesn't matter what the character does, whether it's good, bad or anything inbetween, you will always see it in the worst possible light. The ridiculous overreaction to Wuk Lamat reminded me of the american version of "the Office", where there is this one character named Toby who works in HR of the company, and no matter what he does, Michael hates it, just because he has this irrational, petulent hatred of him. Wuk Lamat is the Toby of FFXIV.

The story is objectively poorly written from a creative writing standpoint, that's not just opinion, it fails across the board. I've said this before elsewhere, feel free to look up the post where I list examples of the issues created by the writing, that not only make Wuk unlikable but destroy the rest of the cast too.

Ultimately the pacing is terrible, they will spend numerous long cutscenes where all the character are just statically standing there, describing things trying to tell the audience about a tiny bit of a culture that could have been shown, and the audience will likely never see or interact with in any meaningful way again. In fact I would be interested to see if anyone wants to count how many cutscenes/minutes of cutscenes are just everyone standing there while wuk has a dialogue with a different NPC. At the same time, the writers will gloss over any of the moments in the plot that could lead to actual character development of the main cast, blitzing through them in a matter of 1 very very short cutscene. Then they never explore or really touch on these points again. This is the pacing issue people are referring to, it's what kills the characters dead in the water, it's what makes Wuk unlikable because she never gets to develop so anything she get feels unearned, it makes her an obnoxious spoiled narcist.

Also yes Wuk lamat is a mary-sue, in fact she fits the definition so well it's like they used the definition when story boarding her character. "A Mary Sue is a character archetype in fiction, usually a young woman, who is often portrayed as inexplicably competent across all domains, gifted with unique talents or powers, liked or respected by most other characters, unrealistically free of weaknesses, extremely attractive, innately virtuous, and generally lacking meaningful character flaws" No being sea sick is not a character flaw. No she doesn't go through being weak, it's stated her older brother thinks she's weak. In about 1-2 cutscenes she very very briefly mentions feeling insignificant compared to her brothers, and then they just ignore any development of those feelings. She continues on just yells loudly and everyone showers her with praises and she constantly gets powerups from no where, making all her achievements feel unearned.

[Higashikata]

Speak to Wuk Lamat yet again.

[adamisapsycho]

Also yes Wuk lamat is a mary-sue, in fact she fits the definition so well it's like they used the definition when story boarding her character. "A Mary Sue is a character archetype in fiction, usually a young woman, who is often portrayed as inexplicably competent across all domains, gifted with unique talents or powers, liked or respected by most other characters, unrealistically free of weaknesses, extremely attractive, innately virtuous, and generally lacking meaningful character flaws" No being sea sick is not a character flaw. No she doesn't go through being weak, it's stated her older brother thinks she's weak. In about 1-2 cutscenes she very very briefly mentions feeling insignificant compared to her brothers, and then they just ignore any development of those feelings. She continues on just yells loudly and everyone showers her with praises and she constantly gets powerups from no where, making all her achievements feel unearned.

Ok, this is some puddle-deep understanding of this story, and yes, IT IS just an opinion. Judging stories by "creative writing" standards is like judging paintings by "paint-by-numbers" standard.

And the examples from Mary-sue definition basically prove that you didn't pay attention to the story. "Inexplicably competent across all domains"- no, "gifted with unique talents and powers"- no, the only unique thing about her is really that she likes peace and wants to learn about Turali cultures, "liked or respected by most other characters"- not from beginning, which means the respect she gets is earned through her actions, not just given by default. "unrealistically free of weaknesses"- she acknowledges that she's dumb and is a hothead, "extremely attractive"- in what universe? "and generally lacking meaningful character flaws"- come on now, naivety, impulsivity and gullibility are with her from the first.

You're not making the point you think you're making here.