Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

[Malthir]

I actually really love Wuk Lamat. At 1st I also was over her character as she didn't seem interesting- I've gotten through the story & she changes. There is character growth & not a continued "confident, loud character" trope, although there should have been more in-depth writing with wuk lamat from the start.
At least she's not Y'shtola- who is a literal mary sue & never suffers thanks to plot armor

Tell me you're trolling without telling me.

Wuk has zero growth. Not because her character is intrinsically bad but because the writers wont let her really suffer through any kind of failure, therefor she never really reflects on her actions. Also the writing teams inability to let a plotline fully develop before closing it, means she cannot progress through states of emotions. There's no transitory emotional state, so no real growth, A character going from one mentality to a completely different one almost instantaneously is not growth. The writers will spend 4 hours on dialogue cutscenes explaining the importance of lamas but they will spend less than 30s on a characters introspection and development.

Also Y'shtola the character that was literally blinded never suffers????????

[Souljacker]

Y'Shtola is a Mary Sue? Hmm. Never really got that sense from her. I kind of liked that for once a developer\writer took an old trope and made it a positive (the old witch trope). Master Matoya ticks all the boxes EXCEPT the misogyny one, which was refreshing given how much of it is still present throughout other areas in the game. I really enjoyed all of Y'Shtola's backstory and contributions to the main story.

Wuk Lamat could have been better, the writers are new, and I get that everyone has to start somewhere but this is a major product. New and untested writers\localizers\VAs shouldn't have complete control over the franchise, and that's what happened here. Those folks could have used another couple years at the feet of the masters, maybe writing supporting content and side quests and eventually working their way up to a full xpansion.

Ishikawa stepping aside so 'new writers could have a shot' was the wrong motivation. She should have hand picked a small team and mentored them carefully through it, co-wrote story retaining the title of head writer. We may not have ended up with what we did. This trend of pushing talent into 'management' is just a huge mistake.

[Malthir]

Y'Shtola is a Mary Sue? Hmm. Never really got that sense from her. I kind of liked that for once a developer\writer took an old trope and made it a positive (the old witch trope). Master Matoya ticks all the boxes EXCEPT the misogyny one, which was refreshing given how much of it is still present throughout other areas in the game. I really enjoyed all of Y'Shtola's backstory and contributions to the main story.

Wuk Lamat could have been better, the writers are new, and I get that everyone has to start somewhere but this is a major product. New and untested writers\localizers\VAs shouldn't have complete control over the franchise, and that's what happened here. Those folks could have used another couple years at the feet of the masters, maybe writing supporting content and side quests and eventually working their way up to a full xpansion.

Ishikawa stepping aside so 'new writers could have a shot' was the wrong motivation. She should have hand picked a small team and mentored them carefully through it, co-wrote story retaining the title of head writer. We may not have ended up with what we did. This trend of pushing talent into 'management' is just a huge mistake.

They did write short stories before, the writers weren't new to the company, one of them wrote most of the post patch endwalker stuff, they wrote the tatarus wonder journey thing. But I do agree, they are just not very good yet at writing.

[Voidmage]

Found an interview with Yoshida regarding Dawntrail’s direction and Wuk Lamat in Japanese through the Japanese forum (I like to read their perspective on this all)
You will have to translate it.
https://s.inside-games.jp/article/20...08/151455.html

It seems the WoL just being a bystander was planned and it really seems that they thought Wuk Lamat was going to be almost universally liked because she is a”character unlike anything before”.

For me it seems more and more that this was not just a writing but a direction issue.

You can find the post on page 20 here
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...03084/?page=20

The opinion of the Japanese on this one is that the devs change course.

Just wanted to post that because I find it interesting that the Japanese site has almost the exact same problems with the story as we do.


Edit: please know that this is my google translation.

[Tethan]

It seems the WoL just being a bystander was planned and it really seems that they thought Wuk Lamat was going to be almost universally liked because she is a”character unlike anything before”.

How out of touch can you be? Even the best, most beloved character in the world would become grating with this kind of treatment. Who asked for this?

[ThorneDynasty]

Considering the quality of the EW patch writing, you'd think that would have been the test run for the writer that they failed and even more reason not to give them an entire expansion. Especially considering it's completely separate storyline. It's fine to give a new writer side content or an interlude storyline to give them a chance to prove themselves and get settled in, but here it feels like they simply assumed they would without ever checking the work and just gave them control automatically.

I don't know, maybe the positivity squad was still drowning out all criticism in 6.X? But then again, I wasn't really paying attention to the story feedback and even I heard some complaints. Like particularly about Zero being a very flat character and too central - So you'd think the editors would have been extra diligent when Wuk Lamat was pitched. There's a clear pattern of hyperfocusing on the writer's pet character emerging here.

Maybe they recorded all the lines super early and could no longer course correct, I don't know.

[SwadTheFrog]

Just wanted to post that because I find it interesting that the Japanese site has almost the exact same problems with the story as we do.

Damn, guess they're all secret transphobes too.
/s

[jameseoakes]

Found an interview with Yoshida regarding Dawntrail’s direction and Wuk Lamat in Japanese through the Japanese forum (I like to read their perspective on this all)
You will have to translate it.
https://s.inside-games.jp/article/20...08/151455.html

It seems the WoL just being a bystander was planned and it really seems that they thought Wuk Lamat was going to be almost universally liked because she is a”character unlike anything before”.

For me it seems more and more that this was not just a writing but a direction issue.

You can find the post on page 20 here
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...03084/?page=20

The opinion of the Japanese on this one is that the devs change course.

Just wanted to post that because I find it interesting that the Japanese site has almost the exact same problems with the story as we do.

The dpeth of out of touch that sounds to be manges to still shock me. I honestly can't grasp how this logic got out of the concept stage

[Kaurhz]

Found an interview with Yoshida regarding Dawntrail’s direction and Wuk Lamat in Japanese through the Japanese forum (I like to read their perspective on this all)
You will have to translate it.
https://s.inside-games.jp/article/20...08/151455.html

It seems the WoL just being a bystander was planned and it really seems that they thought Wuk Lamat was going to be almost universally liked because she is a”character unlike anything before”.

For me it seems more and more that this was not just a writing but a direction issue.

You can find the post on page 20 here
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...03084/?page=20

The opinion of the Japanese on this one is that the devs change course.

Just wanted to post that because I find it interesting that the Japanese site has almost the exact same problems with the story as we do.

She is unlike any before.

The problem is, is that they pushed and pushed the character way too much, and they were really the only character getting the push for a good 80 quests. What could have been likeable about her character ended up not being so because of this. Nothing about it felt organic. This completely and absolutely overshadowed everything about the character.

[BakoolJaJa]

Found an interview with Yoshida regarding Dawntrail’s direction and Wuk Lamat in Japanese through the Japanese forum (I like to read their perspective on this all)
You will have to translate it.
https://s.inside-games.jp/article/20...08/151455.html

It seems the WoL just being a bystander was planned and it really seems that they thought Wuk Lamat was going to be almost universally liked because she is a”character unlike anything before”.

For me it seems more and more that this was not just a writing but a direction issue.

You can find the post on page 22 here
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...03084/?page=20

The opinion of the Japanese on this one is that the devs change course.

Just wanted to post that because I find it interesting that the Japanese site has almost the exact same problems with the story as we do.

Crazy. I mean, I'll give it to them, they did (at least in a way) take a risk with the MSQ. Taking risks is something I tend to praise. Especially in a game as formulaic as ffxiv.

But there seems to be a major disconnect between the playerbase and the devs here. Out of all the things people ever complained about regarding the MSQ, WoL being too much of a main character was never one. So the decision to suddenly make WoL a bystander after 4 expansions of the opposite, is a bit of a mind boggling decision.

Then the hope for Wuk Lamat being universally liked... What exactly was that hope based on? One would think that they'd take a look at the characters that came before, the characters that were loved, characters that were disliked, characters that were controversial, and that they would maybe learn from those things? Instead they took a character that was quite disliked (Lyse) and combined her with a controversial character (Zenos) to make a hellish amalgamation of a clingy, naive, political puppet who hogs the entire expansion for herself. Also "character unlike anything before"... Haha. She is quite literally a furry Lyse who is even more clingy and has 50 times more screen time. There are zero major differences between them.

The devs never stop disappointing in the way they completely misunderstand, misinterpret or downright ignore all relevant feedback. They could have for once cut down on the filler, or improved the pacing, or fleshed out the quest design... Dealt with actual issues the playerbase has. It seems like the only thing they ever actually hear is "we have a problem with the MSQ..." ignore the rest, throw a dice, then try to solve a random problem nobody actually had. Rinse and repeat for next expansion. It is getting tiring. I swear, I've seen the LOTRO MMO fix more issues and change more things despite having 2 devs working on it, than I've seen with Square Enix's biggest cash cow.