The forum has been too much negativities lately

[Malthir]

every bit here is still subjective how much character growth is the correct amount? how much pacing is the correct amount? how much showing? you keep saying this is objective but it's still entirely subjective if they did the right amount.




so there is no well written stories at all that flopped and didn't do well? sorta like there are no poorly written stories that did well? in the end no matter what writting being good or bad is opinionated. you can say something sold well or is a classic it is what you are taught as a base in school but they are not some set in fact as what you have to do to have a good story.

There is none that was my point. I would agree it's subjective if I didn't like the way, the characters grew. That's not the case. The characters don't grow, their personalities go from one end to the other, no in-between stage, therefor no growth. You could try and argue that the growth is off cam. This would be reasonable if they gave us time before the changes, however the characters go through personality changes from 1 cutscene to the next.

[Voidmage]

Yes, there is a problem with the forums when legit 80% of the open topics are people complaining.

Edit: And I don't think Dawntrail is as bad as people say it is. It's only here on the forums (or maybe on Twitter, but I don't use Twitter) where people are complaining this much. I am apart of multiple FFXIV Discord servers, and I never ever hear as much negativity about the expac as I see here on the forums. In addition, most people I speak to in the actual game seem to like the expac.

Might I introduce you to the 3 reddit subs? All of them are critical of the story. It's not just this forum here.
When most threads are people complaining then there is a problem yes, with the product itself.
On the reddit you can even see that people who liked Wuk Lamat say she was overpresented.
I'll be honest with you. For me she was one of the only problems with the story.

And those theories have been proven scientifically to create objectively "good" stories?

No but it don't has to be proven. Fact is that there are guidelines for writing and topics on writing failures. There are entrie jobs surrounded on criticism of art.
If the theories and guidelines didn't matter then the whole job of a story writer would be unneded.
How you like a story is entirely subjective. Even I like my simple stories. FF14 has normaly a simple story but there is a difference between writing an enjoyable 08/15 story and filling one with so many tropes it drowns the writing under it.

[Malthir]

That's fine that people have their own opinions. But there are some people who legitimately like the expansion's story, and when people say that the expac is objectively bad, it's dismissive to the fact that some stories just don't appeal to certain people. Each expansion for FFXIV has its own theme and direction, and they cannot please everyone.

Edit: What would be more constructive is if people said "to me, this character doesn't appeal to me in this way"... etc. instead of saying "this character is written in an actually objectively bad way".

Something can be objectively bad from a writing point of view and you can still enjoy it. I love cheesy hallmark romance movies, they are terribly written, doesn't change the fact I love the shit out of them.

There's a big difference between subjectivity and objectivity in art. What you were saying would be fine if it was the case of people complaining about how loud and immature Wuk is as a character. While I do find that to be the cases, I didn't put that in my critique, because it's just that, personal preference. Where as the way the characters don't develop and instead their personalities flip between whatever is needed for a specific story thread, is objectively poor when it comes to writing standards. See the difference?

[NiceNox]

I paid quite a lot of money and spent quite a time on this expansion I bought and had waited for a while, so, of course, I would complain if it's bad or not up to my standards. While it has its moments here and there, I am not going to turn a blind eye on the bad parts or the spots I don't like or could be better. I expected quite a lot from the team that made Heavensward and Endwalker, so, of course, I am going to be quite harsh and critical of things I found lacking.

[Yegu]

I think people need to chill instead of overreacting.

Maybe the msq shouldn't SUCK

[Aurumis]

Just go to Twitter then. Fair bit of people there are convinced if you dislike the story it's because you hate women.

People on twitter is fucking stupid, all the takes shitting on the critiques are like that, calling the people who don't like it racists, sexists, anything to cancel them instead of listening why they don't like it and maybe try to understand it. Toxic fans are the worst. They don't have brains.

[Xylira]

so there is no well written stories at all that flopped and didn't do well? sorta like there are no poorly written stories that did well? in the end no matter what writting being good or bad is opinionated. you can say something sold well or is a classic it is what you are taught as a base in school but they are not some set in fact as what you have to do to have a good story.

You're conflating financial success with literary competence, which are two vastly different things. While yes, the literary competence of a piece of media can contribute to the financial success, there are countless other variables that impact whether or not a piece of media is financially successful. Discoverability of a piece of media is probably the biggest factor in how successful it is.

There are historically lots of fantastic pieces of literary work that went unnoticed until after the writer passed. And of course there's a lot of poorly written nonsense that gets ridiculously popular because its lucky enough to be picked up by a large distributor and pushed in front of the masses.

[Musashidon]

You're conflating financial success with literary competence, which are two vastly different things. While yes, the literary competence of a piece of media can contribute to the financial success, there are countless other variables that impact whether or not a piece of media is financially successful. Discoverability of a piece of media is probably the biggest factor in how successful it is.

There are historically lots of fantastic pieces of literary work that went unnoticed until after the writer passed. And of course there's a lot of poorly written nonsense that gets ridiculously popular because its lucky enough to be picked up by a large distributor and pushed in front of the masses.

yes there is a difference between if something is good or bad and if its successful or not, my point being any standard that has been shown has also been shown to be completely opinion based.

you can say you have to do this specific thing for it to be good but if people don't like it how is it good? what makes it good?
you can also do the opposite and say this is a bad thing to do in writing but people are liking it then how is it bad? what makes it bad?

every answer to these end up just being an opinion.

[Kalocin]

ironically, you are posting in THE FORUM, lmao

Well yeah, I said I logged in to check the DPS forums to say something about the upcoming viper changes otherwise I wouldn't have bothered logging. Figured I'd check out some other posts while I was here.

[Folsom]

I think people need to chill instead of overreacting.

If you don't want to hear people be critical of a game you like, don't read the threads that are critical of the game you like. The world doesn't hinge on you being aware that other people aren't happy with something.