Wuk Lamat & DT Story are the best for the FFXIV-Story

[Ryaduera]

I understand where people who like the story are coming from, it's because there's a good story in there somewhere but they actual storytelling and script writing is unacceptably bad. It's a sense of hyper optimism that makes it look good through a certain lens. It's important to find joy where others do not and if one finds joy in this story that's fine, but it doesn't excuse the writing sins in the story here.

For one, Wuk Lamat undergoes no actual growth in spite of everything she goes through. She starts off wanting to preserve peace and ends wanting to preserve peace, at no point does she actually learn what that means and how to achieve it. She reads like a Mary Sue self insert in a 2005 Harry Potter fanfic. But her character has been ripped apart by all parts of the internet so I will leave it at that and let it rest for now and talk about some other things that escalate why people say this is a bad story.

Firstly, at the very beginning we are told the city of gold was real. Why? We, the players, knew it was real, so why is the narrative just word vomiting it in our direction? The characters believe it to be a myth, but we the player know its real, we've played RPGs before, we've read books and seen The Road to Eldorado. This is called a Dramatic Irony, and by having the player know its real with the characters not, it allows room for a sense of adventure and roleplay, if we can insert into our character the faith it is real, we can go against the general belief in game and gain a sense of adventure for ourselves while everyone tries to focus on the A plot. Never never never never do this in storytelling. It insults your consumers intelligence and removes any sense of adventure and makes the twist at the end even more obvious.

Now look at the first dungeon. In the beginning of it, our boat gets sabotaged. This does not happen in a scene, this happens in the actual dungeon. Then we fight through a dangerous area just to see a scene at the end proclaiming how little all of that mattered. Tell me, what would have been different if we just stayed on the ship to help repair it? It might have even been repaired faster, but the instant we're done we see the boat. We saved no time and discovered nothing. Instead, the city of gold should have had a hint here since it's a safe bet this place was largely unexplored, so if there were some sort of artifact here (As well as NOT being outright told the city was real from the outset) then we gain at least a bit of mythos and lore here.

And then there's the farmers. We are introduced to 3 farming groups struggling to grow crops. This trope is played THREE times. Once in passing, a Hyur farmer telling Zoraal Ja that the land is unable to grow and they need new land. This is never brought up again. The Mamool are then shown suffering from this issue. Perhaps this is the same group of people, but we as the readers (or players ig) are given no indication of this. Then it turns out we have access to a magical handwavium mcguffin solution in Sharlayan. Then we are introduced to the Alexandrians that had trouble growing their crops, too, but then solved it with pieces of technology that could stimulate plant growth in full effect. A better approach to this would be to tie the first two instances of struggling farmers together and leave that conflict unresolved until we get to Alexandria and have Koana study their solution and work with the others that understand technology and farming both to use these as inspiration and sources of information to resolve the conflict later. The player should discover the solution generically at the same time as the characters, if not before.

I could go into more detail and hit even more points, like how to better foreshadow Bakool Jaja's backstory and make his eventual changes less stark and sudden and more of an "Oh, Oh I see" moment that this story so sorely lacks. Bottom line is, the storytelling here is unprofessionally written fanfic tier, despite there being a decent coming of age story underneath these mistakes somewhere.

[MAJRIS]

if I wanted to watch 20 hours of preaching about family, I would marathon the Vin Diesel movies.

Not saying it did not belong in the msq, however repeated so many times over the course of msq that it felt like they think all players have memory of goldfish.

[Frida]

It would have been nice if the focus was on family. But the focus was on Wuk Lamat becoming the next dawnservant and vying for the throne, which called for politics. And I had judged her as incompetent to become the dawn servant because she had nothing to offer which her brother couldn't offer and more. And so I was, pulled into an adventure I did not want to go in. I would have enjoyed it probably more had they given us an option to support Koana over Wuk Lamat.

[Ryaduera]

This exactly. It kind of ends up downplaying Wuk's whole "love and peace for everyone" when the world is already shown...at peace. Sure, you have a handful of people express that they to expand and others who want more technology, but there's never any "real" friction that takes places around them outside of your anime bandit syndrome. They HINT at issues but never fully address them either, they're just plot devices to make thing happen and then to carry on afterwards.

Bandit tropes really get on my nerves. Banditry is dangerous and bad work that is indicative of larger socio-economic issues that drive them to do that work, but we are shown these don't exist here. It's bad storytelling with no depth or complexity

[CosmoBabylonia]

I thought a lot about the story of Dawntrail and Wuk Lamat.

And yes, those of you who complain about not liking the story and wuk lamat. Here's the big news. The WoL is just a big number in Aldenard, Ilsabard and Othard. In Tural, the WoL is just some strong warrior across the sea. Nothing more, nothing less.


But why is Wuk Lamat and the story so good?

Because of worldbuilding. We learn about Tural through Wuk Lamat. She is our guide through the story. But the most important question here is what is the story of Dawntrail?

The central theme is family. Not just in the MSQ but also in the role quests. Everything is about family. Wuk Lamat, Bakool Yes Yes, the characters from the role quests and also the WoL and the scions.

Oh and why Wuk Lamat and the DT story are the best for FFXIV? Because it's a recovery from the world-threatening events of Shadowbringer and Endwalker. I'm glad we don't have the next everything-destroying supervillain right away. Shadowbringer and Endwalker were only so good because of ARR, HW and SB. They were able to build on what was there before. Dawntrail tells a new story.

So that's my opinion. Have fun in Dawntrail and be kind to each other.

Ok so we have Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam, arguably one of the best Gundam series ever made. That has 50 episodes about 20 minutes each. The entire run-time of that anime is 16-18 hours give or take. The main cast, even the side characters got really good character development and changed massively throughout the entire 50 episodes. I mean look at Char Aznable, I mean Quattro Bajeena. He was sidelined as a mentor and side character and didn't even get a lot of screen time, and his character development directly impacted his decision making in Double Zeta and Char's Counter Attack. That is how you do effective character development.

DT takes about 30-40 hours to finish right? In the span of 30-40 hours, Wuk sucked all the way through with no signs of improvement or real character growth. The lead writer for DT should get an award for how terrible he is. How do you have a main character that remained pretty much static the whole way through, with a run time of longer than a 50 episode anime.

Hell, if they give us DT where we have to teach some hard lessons and mentor Kamille Wok Lmao as a Casval Rem Deikun Quattro Bajeena, I would have been very happy. Instead, they gave us the adventures of Naruto becoming the Hokage with Infinity Starbursts.

LATE NIGHT, COME HOME

[Colt47]

if I wanted to watch 20 hours of preaching about family, I would marathon the Vin Diesel movies.

Not saying it did not belong in the msq, however repeated so many times over the course of msq that it felt like they think all players have memory of goldfish.

The *problem* is that they clearly intended players to stop and do the side quests that are completely optional and it shows how little the team over-seas understands what is going on in the culture that has developed over here. They designed a game that requires a lot of time to get things back online when the level cap increases, which pushes people to rush the MSQ over doing any kind of side content. I've seen people complete the entire MSQ in a marathon run over three days, while others just plain skip the cutscenes, all to get to cap and start dealing with other tasks like grinding up the crafters and gatherers.

They also encouraged the rush culture with including savage and ultimate, since the only thing that those kinds of players care about is the end game. They have a need to be max level with penta-melds regardless of tier, and the start of a new expansion means they got a blessed few weeks to get...

1) Flight unlocked in all zones.
2) Max level all their gatherers and crafters
3) Get all the mastercraft books for the proper recipes
4) Craft or purchase all the gathering and crafting gear they need.
5) possibly get gemstone vendors unlocked.
6) Grind the jobs they are going to use to max level (usually at least two or three so if they can't take their first choice they got a backup).

Heck, even people who are not into savage still do all this just to keep up with the market demand in-game and to avoid social media spoiling everything. Or just to be able to talk with their buddies about the MSQ since people hate getting things spoiled.

The story was definitely a problem but it wasn't just the story that was an issue. I feel like AAA studios are turning into the B-game studios where people just kind of pick them up to play for a bit and move on, or there are 2 or 3 good parts to the game that people like and the rest ends up being forgettable. I doubt I'll remember Wuk Lamat after this expansion much like some other stuff unless memes start showing up across the net, or the legendary naruto-ness of her just cements her in everyones mind in the worst way possible. Sphene had way more potential to be a good character and was literally shot dead by the writers.

What I would have loved as an expansion, was a story where everyone is running after the city of gold, only in the end to find out after struggling literally to the teeth, the golden city had long been lost and everyone sort of realizes at the end that the adventure of finding it was the most important thing instead of the so called reward.

[Malthir]

I would generally agree. its the beginning of their next arc, so it has to set things up for the future, as that, it serves as an introduction and for that it works well.

I am interested in seeing where they are going, as in, a big bad over several expansions or just one threat per?

I think its a good release. I dont find it as bad as many posting in the forums do and I dont hate anything about it. nor do I feel "let down" (some job decisions are a completely different matter but that doesnt change the story)

The problem with your statement is it's not true. It doesn't set anything up because for some reason the writers keep resolving things about 2hours after starting them. They resolve who's the new leader less than half way through, they resolve all of the enemy threats by the end of the expac, all story wise they left open is magical mcguffin, 30hours of being talked to and it ends with here's a magical hourglass gg.

The *problem* is that they clearly intended players to stop and do the side quests that are completely optional and it shows how little the team over-seas understands what is going on in the culture that has developed over here. They designed a game that requires a lot of time to get things back online when the level cap increases, which pushes people to rush the MSQ over doing any kind of side content. I've seen people complete the entire MSQ in a marathon run over three days, while others just plain skip the cutscenes, all to get to cap and start dealing with other tasks like grinding up the crafters and gatherers.

They also encouraged the rush culture with including savage and ultimate, since the only thing that those kinds of players care about is the end game. They have a need to be max level with penta-melds regardless of tier, and the start of a new expansion means they got a blessed few weeks to get...

1) Flight unlocked in all zones.
2) Max level all their gatherers and crafters
3) Get all the mastercraft books for the proper recipes
4) Craft or purchase all the gathering and crafting gear they need.
5) possibly get gemstone vendors unlocked.
6) Grind the jobs they are going to use to max level (usually at least two or three so if they can't take their first choice they got a backup).

Heck, even people who are not into savage still do all this just to keep up with the market demand in-game and to avoid social media spoiling everything. Or just to be able to talk with their buddies about the MSQ since people hate getting things spoiled.

The story was definitely a problem but it wasn't just the story that was an issue. I feel like AAA studios are turning into the B-game studios where people just kind of pick them up to play for a bit and move on, or there are 2 or 3 good parts to the game that people like and the rest ends up being forgettable. I doubt I'll remember Wuk Lamat after this expansion much like some other stuff unless memes start showing up across the net, or the legendary naruto-ness of her just cements her in everyones mind in the worst way possible. Sphene had way more potential to be a good character and was literally shot dead by the writers.

The problem is the devs don't offer any game content before the MSQ is done, take ARR for example, 80% of the dungeons weren't related to the MSQ, they all had their own self contained stories, that you went back to and did the hard mode, which changed the dungeon and gave us a story that showed the impact of what we did when we went there the first time. The problem stems not from the playerbase but from the culture the devs created, they stripped all side stories to literal bones in favour of a bigger MSQ. The only other content is only available after the MSQ is completed. So if the MSQ doesn't slap the game dies, it was a mistake and I hope for the sake of the games future they rectify it FF14 is not nearly big enough to survive 2 bad expacs in a row so they need to change stuff soon imo.

[Rekh]

I agree. It's the most fun, msq-wise, I've had in FFXIV since I joined the game in 2014.

Even battle content such as dungeons, trials, and job design have been a nice surprise overall (though job and role uniqueness has to return in the future).

Lastly I'll say this, this is the peak of RPG I've seen in a square enix game in decades; sans kingdom heart games. It's got all the rpg elements which ffxvi did not have, for example, the part dynamics, open world, incredibly gorgeous locations, and a lot of actors, factions, and mystery.

Honestly, square enix won my faith in the game, msq-wise with Dawntrail. Now, whether the content post-msq will keep me around for 4 months between patches is another story; the game just doesn't have enough content to keep anyone around after they max their jobs/professions.

[Karkarov]

I really liked Wuk Lamat. After all the depressing things that have happened to our character the last two expansions, her bubbly personality was a refreshing change. Much as I like the scions, they all feel like colleagues rather than friends (other than Estinien). Wuk Lamat feels like a buddy for our WoL and I enjoyed it.

As for the story...


The Warrior of Light's time is over. We're Azem now. We're carrying out the mandate Emet-Selch left us. And that includes helping people. Azem wasn't the convocation's blunt weapon like the Warrior of Light has been for 10 years. If we had done everything for Wuk Lamat, people would be still be bitching. Instead we see her get agency throughout the story. We stand back and watch our friend succeed.

Honestly, I feel a bit like Gandalf now.

..... Thancred and Yshtola for example have existed in the story since 1.0. Yes, I was playing in 1.0. No, they are not my "work associates". Wuk Lamat is not my friend, she is some person who came asking me to help her win a political contest and only managed to prove that I really should have talked to Thancred and Urianger first because their candidate is infinitely more qualified and a better leader. The game even doubles down on Koana being a better leader literally every chance it gets, especially AFTER Wuk Lamat has won.

I don't feel like Gandalf, I feel like Mary Poppins except I am not baby sitting children but an adult who is supposed to be leading a country. Azem was not some mentor who went around nodding whenever some logic never positive thoughts always moron needed help. They traveled the world and helped people on their own terms. You have literally been doing that again since 1.0. "Being Azem" is not a new plot development you are literally the reincarnated version of the last Azem. Emet Selch is not my boss and did not mandate anything to me, he just mentioned there were still things to see and learn and as a "adventurer" I want to go see and learn them. I did not need Wuk Lamat to be there for me to do that and considering you go through the trials the same as she does, no, I don't learn jack through her. In fact her being there if anything is a hindrance to me "hearing, feeling, and thinking" because how can I when every five minutes she opens her mouth to repeat the same nonsense she has been saying since the last Endwalker patch?

[Tethan]

Bandit tropes really get on my nerves. Banditry is dangerous and bad work that is indicative of larger socio-economic issues that drive them to do that work, but we are shown these don't exist here. It's bad storytelling with no depth or complexity

Oh I swear the story gets worse the more you think about it, I didn't consider this until now...

Why are there bandits in the wild west town?

...Because it's a wild west town... They just.. spawn in naturally I guess.

My god it's all just tropes, isn't it?