JP Official Forums are also criticizing the Dawntrail MSQ.

[SirShady]

Holy shit, the circlejerk in this forum is crazy.

Is there stuff to criticize? Absolutely. But the way you guys want to make it look like everything is bad and this was the worst story of all time is actually bordering on mental health issues.

Dude, you're on the official forum for the game. People of likeminded opinions are going to share what they like/dislike. A lot of us have come here for the first time because we just can't believe how poorly the dip in quality Dawntrail has been, and want to be reassured we aren't just going crazy. Personally, I'm also hoping to find positive feedback I agree with to convince myself this wasn't a total disappointment.

I haven't seen anyone complain about the new dungeons/trials. I haven't seen anyone complain about the look of the new zones. I haven't seen anyone claim it to be "the worst story of all time". Worst FF expansion story, for sure. I find that the best way to engage in discussions is to actually put forth your own arguments for what you liked and why, instead of just...

Yeah, who doesn't like all this "criticism" of "Wuk lamat is bad, lamattrail LoL, lamat tea xD, it's mid rofl"...

How can you expect anyone to take you seriously when you're just misrepresenting the opposing side? Try having a discussion, as if this were some kind of game forum. And yes, people will call you out for being a hypocrite. You can disagree entirely with us without being a jerk.

Do better.

[Fawkes]

That's new to me. I thought it was well documented that they primarly listen to the JP audience.

It's well documented that they mostly listen to nobody.

JP players think they only listen to us because of things like female outfits being made wearable by male characters.

What examples are there of things JP players have asked for that NA players did not want?

[Folsom]

Honestly it is a good thing they released Dawntrail when WoW is in a lull or I probably wouldn't be playing this at all. I havn't got far but I completed the first area with the Hanu Hanu and now I'm on to Urqopacha and I am skipping most of the dialoggue just because it is so boring. Like...really? The crops in the first area were dying because people were...sad and we had to make them feel better?

And apparently now I am supposed to capture an Alpaca?

Oh, my sweet summer child, no. YOU aren't supposed to capture an alpaca. You are supposed to sit around in camp and do nothing while someone else captures an alpaca.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

It's well documented that they mostly listen to nobody.

JP players think they only listen to us because of things like female outfits being made wearable by male characters.

What examples are there of things JP players have asked for that NA players did not want?

I'd like to think that the obsession with consoles is at least partly due to the JP market.

This game could be SOOOO much better if it wasn't for the glacial speed of combat.

[Folsom]

The irony is despite having us at her beck and call, we're literally never needed for damn near anything. We just stand around like a flower ornament while she gets the "POWER OF FRIENDSHIP" whenever the story needs her to win a fight. It speaks volumes some of the best segments of Dawntrail--few and far between as they were--all conveniently didn't involve Mary Sue Lamat. Having now completed the story, I'm more convinced than ever they simply didn't have enough of a story to tell and just padded the living heck out of the MSQ to make it work.

Yes! And so we got Final Fantasy XIV: NPC Simulator.

[ReynTime]

Well she is basically a Mary Sue, from what I have seen so far.

Wuk Lamat is a bad character. But she is not a Mary Sue.
People need to stop using "Mary Sue" to define "character I don't like".

[Folsom]

Wuk Lamat is a bad character. But she is not a Mary Sue.
People need to stop using "Mary Sue" to define "character I don't like".

Based on the Wikipedia definition of Mary Sue, I'd say Wuk Lamat actually fits the definition quite well.

A Mary Sue is a character archetype in fiction, usually a young woman, who is often portrayed as inexplicably competent across all domains, gifted with unique talents or powers, liked or respected by most other characters, unrealistically free of weaknesses, extremely attractive, innately virtuous, and generally lacking meaningful character flaws.[1][2][3][4] Usually female and almost always the main character, a Mary Sue is often an author's idealized self-insertion, and may serve as a form of wish fulfillment. Mary Sue stories are often written by adolescent authors.

She's definitely a young woman.

Even though we're told that she's inexperienced, she is competent at everything she attempts within a matter of moments.

She has the unique talent of people just giving in to whatever she requests/asks for, among other things. Her "power" is Charisma, even though many players wouldn't agree that she has it; all of the in-game characters act as if she does.

She is liked/respected by most other characters (even if they don't like/respect her at first, most quickly grow to like her despite how annoying she is).

All of her weaknesses are either quickly overcome or are not meaningful at all (seasickness, naivety; physical weakness is irrelevant because despite claiming to be "weaker" than her brothers and Bakool Ja Ja, she fights an Auspice aka Tural Vidraal and then defeats Bakool Ja Ja and his entire group of lackeys with literally no additional training or development. Not even the Scions could all have done that throughout the story, but she does so with zero problems).

She is attractive (she's a cat girl in a game world where cat girls are universally loved).

She is innately virtuous (Peace! Love! I will save my people!)

All of her character flaws are especially meaningless. Even those we're told she has are erased with ZERO effort and have no bearing on the story after the first moments.

She is not just a Mary Sue. She is the archetypal example of a Mary Sue. She is more Mary Sue than most Mary Sues.

[Swordsman]

JP Official Forums are also criticizing the Dawntrail MSQ.

Well I don't find that surprising. 5ch is erupting in similar fashion except it's more toxic there because there aren't as many rules in place as the JP Official Forums.

[CaptainLagbeard]

Based on the Wikipedia definition of Mary Sue, I'd say Wuk Lamat actually fits the definition quite well.



She's definitely a young woman.

Even though we're told that she's inexperienced, she is competent at everything she attempts within a matter of moments.

She has the unique talent of people just giving in to whatever she requests/asks for, among other things. Her "power" is Charisma, even though many players wouldn't agree that she has it; all of the in-game characters act as if she does.

She is liked/respected by most other characters (even if they don't like/respect her at first, most quickly grow to like her despite how annoying she is).

All of her weaknesses are either quickly overcome or are not meaningful at all (seasickness, naivety; physical weakness is irrelevant because despite claiming to be "weaker" than her brothers and Bakool Ja Ja, she fights an Auspice aka Tural Vidraal and then defeats Bakool Ja Ja and his entire group of lackeys with literally no additional training or development. Not even the Scions could all have done that throughout the story, but she does so with zero problems).

She is attractive (she's a cat girl in a game world where cat girls are universally loved).

She is innately virtuous (Peace! Love! I will save my people!)

All of her character flaws are especially meaningless. Even those we're told she has are erased with ZERO effort and have no bearing on the story after the first moments.

She is not just a Mary Sue. She is the archetypal example of a Mary Sue. She is more Mary Sue than most Mary Sues.

She most definitely hits more Mary Sue points than not... Just about the only thing that can't be confirmed (or denied) at the present is whether it's one of the writers OC.

[ForteNightshade]

what funny is most the complaints is people unable to deal with NOT being the protagonist for a story and people with Main Character Syndrome can't possibly have fun if its not 100% about their character even tho really after Stormblood, Shadowbringers and EW being so focused on world / universe ending threats their characters would have seen the 1st half as a nice relaxing vacation compared to what they had dealt with for so long and been relaxing.

Quoting myself from reddit:

Can we please stop saying people merely want the WoL to be in the spotlight? While that may be the case for some, plenty more simply want their character to have a sense of relevancy.

Seriously, you could replace the WoL with a random nobody and it'd have almost zero impact because everything revolves around Wuk Lamat like an insufferable black hole.

The 4th zone is a prime example of us not being a world altering bad*** but going back to our roots and getting wrapped up into small little adventures along the way. That's what I, and I suspect many others, wanted from a lower stakes story. And that whole Western motif highlights how you can dial down those stakes without needing to anchor everything to one character. I wouldn't necessary hate if we were treated as a legitimate mentor to miss Mary Sue but we're not. The story acts like she accomplishes all these amazing things yet not only never shows a single one but actively contradicts itself.

A perfect sense for our character instead goes to Thancred

I've said it elsewhere but it bears repeating. We're not the side character like Hien but the nameless guard delivering a missive. And that makes for an incredibly boring "adventure".