Dawntrail was great. More like this, please!

[Shikiseki]

I think the zone direction, especially the first 2 ones, were fantastic - each felt like artwork come to life in 3D! (the later ones kinda dropped in quality in that regard but regardless those 2 first zones need to be held high as the golden standard from now on

[ThreadOfFate]

I'd love to hear what makes this story and plot good, so far I have seen not one thing to make me feel for characters involved, many situations disregard the WoL or even stand in exact opposition to what WoL stands for - such as saving innocent lives for example, which WoL does not even attempt to do at some points to straight out murdering people in the last zone. Do I feel like murder as a topic is taboo? No. I welcome it when done right, in this case it was hardly right and I cannot imagine a situation where Scions or WoL lightly decide "yeah, sure lets murder everyone." if anything my mental image of WoL and Scions was such that they'd rather face bigger hardships and struggles than extinguish innocent lives just to make their job easier.

it's very funny that you bring this up because during the course of MSQ this exact point is brought up, discussed at length, and indeed pondered over by the characters themselves! Several parts of MSQ are about those people that the Scions are 'murdering' who tell them (multiple times, even!) that they are not truly alive and they are being reanimated through artificial means that threaten the existence of living people elsewhere. It is not 'lightly decided', it is in some cases agonized over and it is definitely discussed with the gravitas that it deserves.

The exact nature of the Endless, and why they cannot be allowed to continue existing DESPITE EVERYONE WANTING THEM TO, is covered within the story. Despite the appearances, the Scions are doing the functional equivalent of deleting a bunch of AI chatbots fed with the text of somebody's life story and the memories of those around them. This does pose interesting philosophical questions! These questions are also discussed and pondered during the MSQ, but ultimately cast aside because to entertain the Endless living is to allow for the countless deaths of people in other shards, that cannot be made Endless.

EDIT: As for "what makes it so good", I thought it was a very interesting story of helping somebody grow into a leadership role and then watching that role become tested by a terrible, extreme situation. My first post contains a lot of what I liked and I still stand by it. I thought the characters were relatable, even many of the minor ones we saw. I thought the overall plot was enjoyable and thought provoking. I appreciated the obviously intentional reprisals and characters and similar plot beats from SHB and before, but I don't buy that it was just the writers being lazy because we spent far more time among the people of Alexandria than we did Aumarot. the first half was so much about setting up the necessary character development for wuk lamat to have her spearhead the second half.

[NekiUno]

OP, your post is very thoughtful and much appreciated.

I realize that opinions on this expansion will vary; some may dislike it, which is understandable, while others may find enjoyment in it.

I found the story profoundly captivating, and the concluding segment resonated with me especially. Having lost my mother recently, I've been navigating a difficult period, both emotionally and physically. Moving on is tough after the loss of a loved one. The characters convey a recognition that life progresses forward, and it's important to cherish every moment with our dear ones (this extends to everyone participating here, as we form a family), since the journey's end is unpredictable for us all.

I believe we should view this expansion through the eyes of Azem, the Traveler, witnessing a young woman's transformation from a timid and boastful warrior to a magnificent and sagacious leader. Through our actions, we've aided many people on our journey, ultimately bringing them peace. There are still many mysteries left to explore, as the day has only just begun.

[Voidmage]

I've seen absolutely no negative reactions in chat whatsoever.

I actually did encounter them. I had two dungeon runs were the story was a negative topic.
Granted it was only two but most of my runs have either no discussion at all or a comment about the new dungeons themself normally not about the story tbh.
It’s just anectodal evidence though.

In the end it’s all just personal opinion and I‘m happy for those who liked the story.
But as someone who has read the forum in the past quietly I have to say that the negative opinions are faster and more this time then before, both in the english and Japanese threads.

[Mcg55ss]

I actually did encounter them. I had two dungeon runs were the story was a negative topic.
Granted it was only two but most of my runs have either no discussion at all or a comment about the new dungeons themself normally not about the story tbh.
It’s just anectodal evidence though.

In the end it’s all just personal opinion and I‘m happy for those who liked the story.
But as someone who has read the forum in the past quietly I have to say that the negative opinions are faster and more this time then before, both in the english and Japanese threads.

Anytime you change a story from being central based on your character and then move it to where we are maybe 4th in the story people will complain. Gamers in general have Main Character Syndrome where if it doesn't revolve around them no one else can have fun or enjoy it. This expansion is about Wuk Lamat, her people, and how her and her brothers grow and we are just a sidekick really there for moral support. A lot of people will not like that because it makes it feel like they are taking a back seat to a npc and if its not about them they could care less. Frankly after playing through EW with it always being world ending disaster that we must save all about us and how we have to stop it and how we need to this and do that i enjoyed the 1st half of this expansion. It was nice to not be the central focus relax a bit, immersing myself in my player im sure he would have loved it "thank god finally something simple i can do as an adventurer without having to save the world". Will everyone like that no.....but that doesn't make writing bad or expansion bad that we aren't the protagonist.

[genuine_stranger]

I don't think we play a passive role but rather that DT doesn't follow through on that promise.

We constantly pushed into the limelight, we are taking active part in the fight for succession for Wuk Lamat and after that it's another world ending threat that we have to deal with.

Instead of, you know, taking a backseat letting the world's problems be their own problems for one expansion and adventuring through Tural, unlike Estinien.

[Mcg55ss]

I don't think we play a passive role but rather that DT doesn't follow through on that promise.

We constantly pushed into the limelight, we are taking active part in the fight for succession for Wuk Lamat and after that it's another world ending threat that we have to deal with.

Instead of, you know, taking a backseat letting the world's problems be their own problems for one expansion and adventuring through Tural, unlike Estinien.

I do agree i would prefer to followed Estinien and not be involved directly with the politics but that would have made the final boss of the expansion lil hard to know or have any idea about why he does what he does. I didn't mind following and doing the lil chores or helping out here and there as a sidekick tho i found it a nice change of pace.

[Brian25]

thanks to several people in this thread for giving me your unsolicited opinions on how you didn't like dawntrail!

in the spirit of a hearty debate, i would like to counter-offer the question of "who asked" and point you to the "Post New Thread" button at the top left of the General Discussion forum, where you can make a whole new thread to discuss your thoughts, away from mine, which if you'll note was intended for me to offer my opinions!

so many of y'all genuinely need to learn to post in your own spaces. my god.

Posts on forums where discussion is the entire point, complains about people discussing...

[Voidmage]

Anytime you change a story from being central based on your character and then move it to where we are maybe 4th in the story people will complain. Gamers in general have Main Character Syndrome where if it doesn't revolve around them no one else can have fun or enjoy it. This expansion is about Wuk Lamat, her people, and how her and her brothers grow and we are just a sidekick really there for moral support. A lot of people will not like that because it makes it feel like they are taking a back seat to a npc and if its not about them they could care less. Frankly after playing through EW with it always being world ending disaster that we must save all about us and how we have to stop it and how we need to this and do that i enjoyed the 1st half of this expansion. It was nice to not be the central focus relax a bit, immersing myself in my player im sure he would have loved it "thank god finally something simple i can do as an adventurer without having to save the world". Will everyone like that no.....but that doesn't make writing bad or expansion bad that we aren't the protagonist.

I already answered you in another thread about exactly this point about your MCS stance on the playerbase. You actually answered part of it yourself here.
You just don't do a 180 turn of this kind in an mmorpg. Because players liked being the MC (and its even more important because we are silent).
I will ignore your attack on those with criticism (no one else can enjoy it) because I repeatedly say that I am happy for those who like either this here or the BLM changes. But this is a forum so feedback from others on a topic is to be expected.

Also there was no real adventuring this time because the path was either written in stone (the first part) or escalated (the second part).

[ThreadOfFate]

Posts on forums where discussion is the entire point, complains about people discussing...

Then discuss in a thread meant for discussion. If people are going to come in here and tell me i'm wrong when I never asked for it, I'm going to tell them they're weird and need to get better at human interaction. I have no problems elaborating on what I said but showing up with a "actually it was 3/10" just tells me they think they're the main character and they should go make their own thread.