Dawntrail's MSQ story is a disaster and waste of potential. [full spoilers]

[Eyrilona]

Totally agree. Minor note is that the Lala's came from the Source from the South Seas islands, specifically Aloalo. Might have been mentioned in some of the side quests. Several references to the Speaker and a giant statue, etc. I was also confused at first and also thought they meant another reflection. But now we have another mystery of how a relatively primitive culture had an artifact that allows for dimensional fusion, and the Speaker had supposedly had it for years/potentially had it passed down.

This may not be the thread for it, but we could embark on some wild speculation here...

Since the miilalas left the Source during the event of the 5th umbral calamity, but arrived prior to the 2nd, we have a situation that can not be explained by relative differences in the passing of time, because the timelines would be cross-wired... so we have to presume that the key not only allows travel between reflections, but time as well. Combine this with how in ARR we see that Tataru, before turning her hand to the crafting jobs, tried to join the arcanists guild, but gave up after her carbucle ran away from her. However, in Endwalker a side quest in Labyrinthos reveals that this same carbuncle was found still in that area several expansions later, and the researcher on the case states that it would take an unimaginably powerful arcanist to bring forth a carbuncle that could persist so long on its own, seeding the theory that Tataru may actually have a natural talent for being the most powerful arcanist in known history. And possibly not entirely relevant, but Island Sanctuary additionally shows us Tataru becoming a regular visitor to sunny islands.

And with the scions becoming the guardians of that key, these two things come together and create potential for some event, by mishap or intentional, whereby the coinkeeper of the scions (being the character most likely to open the scions' vault for business, only to be sucked into a portal opened in there by the key) is transported to the South Sea Isles in the distant past, and becomes the unwitting founder of miilala culture and the original art of arcanima on the Source? If the key then remains in that past, you would have a closed time loop which is often the only way to narratively get rid of an overly convenient time travel device...

I doubt any of that is going to happen of course, but all the little hooks and lore bits to make it work are actually there.

[Kashou]

This is the single worst expansion I have ever played for any MMORPG. The writing is on par with the worst, most low level JRPGs out there and it actually follows most of the storybeats and uses similar elements as well. Wuk Lamat is horrible, but there are SO many characters that are MUCH worse. But also how little the classes are actually getting any changes or improvements, it feels like they are at a dead end both writing wise and game design wise and this is either the end, or they use this as a wake up call.

[Singularity]

Since the miilalas left the Source during the event of the 5th umbral calamity, but arrived prior to the 2nd

I don't think this is a sound assertion, the assumption being that the buildup of lightning aether on the Alexandrian shard is the same event as the 2nd calamity.

Aether buildup prior to a rejoining has so far only been observed on the Source and the shard that is to be rejoined, and that shard of the 2nd calamity was rejoined and thus doesn't exist at all any more. The lightning imbalance is characteristic of a prelude to a rejoining, but it seems more likely the Ascians were simply setting up for a second lightning calamity, as there's nothing to say they can't use the same element twice.

[Remilia_Nightfall]

This is the single worst expansion I have ever played for any MMORPG. The writing is on par with the worst, most low level JRPGs out there and it actually follows most of the storybeats and uses similar elements as well. Wuk Lamat is horrible, but there are SO many characters that are MUCH worse. But also how little the classes are actually getting any changes or improvements, it feels like they are at a dead end both writing wise and game design wise and this is either the end, or they use this as a wake up call.

It just shows that Ishikawa carried FF14's story hard. And without the story, FF14 is a slower, less interactive WoW that only caters to ERPers.

[Eyrilona]

I don't think this is a sound assertion, the assumption being that the buildup of lightning aether on the Alexandrian shard is the same event as the 2nd calamity.

Aether buildup prior to a rejoining has so far only been observed on the Source and the shard that is to be rejoined, and that shard of the 2nd calamity was rejoined and thus doesn't exist at all any more. The lightning imbalance is characteristic of a prelude to a rejoining, but it seems more likely the Ascians were simply setting up for a second lightning calamity, as there's nothing to say they can't use the same element twice.

That is a fair counter to the assertion. The Ascians not only could use the same element more than once, but would have to, since there are more reflections than elements anyway. Even so.. the Ascians are smart enough to know that if they tried to bring two rejoinings to a head using differently aligned aether at the same time, the Source would have to be pulled in two aetheric directions at once, which doesn't fit with how Emet-Selch describes how they do it. They have always worked to have the Source see one type of aether ascendant that matches the reflection they are bringing to calamity. And since the Ascians were still working on the Light one when we pretty much stopped their whole operation, I don't think it would make sense for a reflection with a Levin element to have gone critical in the present or very recent past..?

There is a theory floating around that because of their control of Dimensional Fusion, the Alexandria behind the gate may actually be a remnant bubble of the reflection that did rejoin in the 2nd, clinging to the Source like a small soap bubble on a larger one ever since the 2nd rejoining, and that that was why the boundary was so thin in places that the Yok Huy could 'hear' it and see it in visions.

It is sad that the expansion was so loose with the existing lore about a lot of things that I can not say with certainty if they even gave it as much thought as you and I just did.

[Mika_Zahard]

...I think i warned early on when the announcement of the extra week per patch was just an extra week of sub in their pocket and it will not pertain to any improvement whatsoever into anything lol. Saw it coming. And everyone was like "noooo shut up it's gonna be better, everything is going to be worked on with extra touches of finition and care, shut up, shut up you infidel !"...

They downvoted her because she told them the truth

[dracosludge]

Going to split this between three posts because it's too long.

I feel like Zoraal Ja had a lot of potential that was ultimately squandered, but Wuk Lamat's treatment of him in particular actively made me despise her as a character even more than babysitting her.

Not once does this supposed family ever give a single damn about him or his wellbeing. The scene with Otis where Wuk Lamat tries to talk to his kid about "family" and what "family does" was almost my breaking point when it comes to skipping story cutscenes. She doesn't know half a shit about what "family" actually is, and neither her nor Koana are worthy of the throne. Not even Gulool Ja Ja was at this point.

But Wuk Lamat's the one who's shoved into your face and the game wants you to desperately like because she's so kind and empathetic and wants to understand others, and the result of this is that her entire character completely falls apart. I'm expected to believe in and root for a character who champions peace and understanding and goes out of her way to interact with people who dislike her like the Mamool Ja in Yak T'el because they're her people, but she can't spare even a single moment to try and reach out to her eldest brother, nor does she nor any of her family care about the fact that he's gone missing after being at what is obvious to anyone the lowest point in his life? Try being a decent family member before you try being some protector and sage of the people first.

You'll take the time to try and get along with the Mamool Ja going out of their way to avoid interaction with you (because you need information to win the contest) but won't even spare a single thought towards your brother? It paints both her and Koana in an incredibly hypocritical light, least of all the fact that they show active care for each other, their father shows consistent care for them, but all three of them make no attempt to ever reach out to Zoraal Ja -- no concern he's missing after he lost, no questioning why he'd snap and attack an elector which would ruin his chances without question, none of it. Fuck Zoraal Ja. He's not your damn family, and you've more than shown that.

And then when he becomes an actual genocidal tyrant, you have the gall to try and tell his kid that you're family, this is what family does, but you have to kill him? It just comes off as a shallow lie in order to avoid any actual guilt towards failing to do for your own family what you could apparently do so easily for literally everyone else. But I'm supposed to cheer her on because she's so cool and kind! Let alone the fact that she is genuinely a Mary Sue -- she should not have solo'd Bakool Ja Ja and his entire group of goons, straight up. Forcing me to play her just rubbed salt in the wound.

Anyway, enough about the worst FF main character in series history including spin-off material, and back to the squandered potential of Zoraal Ja.

[dracosludge]

Zoraal Ja has nothing and nobody but the weight of expectations on his shoulders, because he's the First Promise, the Resilient Son, the damn miracle. His own family, his own father by blood don't give a shit about him until he starts killing people. The first time he's even actually acknowledged by his father is when Gulool Ja Ja bemoans the fact that "my son" is killing his people and needs to be put down. It's telling that Zoraal Ja destroys the throne in response -- he's not Gulool Ja Ja's son, Wuk Lamat and Koana are. They're the ones who recieved affection and care, they're the ones who Gulool Ja Ja actually cares about and views as people.

Zoraal Ja's motivation is stupid and illogical, and on some level he should know that. It's a cry for help, in my eyes -- he's begging someone to stop him, convince him he's wrong, but that never happens. He's as alone as ever, so screw it -- screw his family, screw Tural, screw the whole damn world. No one cares for him, so all and everything in it are just tools to him now.

And yet his actions continue to be illogical. Why doesn't he kill Ketenramm beyond plot convenience? Why does he sire a son and then, instead of just killing him, tells him to bugger off because he has "no further use for him"? How did he even get to the point of being so cold and distant during the rite? Why did his own family just accept this and not do anything about it? There's possible subtlety to his character, but it might just be a fluke or my own head trying to convince me there's something in this story I actually like, even conceptually.

Zoraal Ja would have made a far more compelling character to follow than Wuk Lamat, to have someone so clearly going down the wrong path and the WoL intervene -- even just a single scene spent directly interacting with him even if it ultimately doesn't sway him would have gone far, but I feel he would have made an excellent character with a far more engaging arc to follow and "show the ropes" than Wuk Lamat rediscovering that her role is the protector of the people for the twelth time. I miss having complicated and strained relationships with and between party members.

[dracosludge]

Even besides that, the questions behind Zoraal Ja's son are countless -- how does he exist? Why does he exist? Why would Zoraal Ja even have a kid in the first place just to abandon him? This is probably set up for post-patches, but if they really wanted to pull a sympathy card when you murder him they should have actually shown some good -- make him an insanely devoted father to the point of obsession to contrast the lack of attention and love from his own father compared to his adopted siblings. He can still be on the warpath to genocide and need putting down, but this would have been more preferable to actually directly expose a flaw and failing of the rest of the royal family in how they couldn't even reach one of their own; how are they going to truly reach the people and other nations?

I got to the point where during the Otis fight quest part of me was rooting for Zoraal, and yet the thing is is that so much of this is very much just me reading between the lines -- or just making shit up to satisfy myself. Even if the end result is the same, there are so many interesting ways to take his character, and all of them were squandered for goddamn Wuk Lamat who is an insufferable, one dimensional cardboard cut out of a character with an "arc". I would have rather seen her killed off alongside Gulool Ja Ja by Zoraal Ja at the lvl95/6 quest mark and have Koana move on in her stead, because her character effectively does jack all after that beyond the same crap she's been doing over and over for the first half of the expansion.

All in all, maybe Zoraal Ja has no depth, but he definitely had potential, and maybe my reasons for liking him aren't really in the text. But ultimately, I like him far more than any of the other characters, and I don't think that was the writer's intentions -- because Wuk Lamat is the awesomest bestest hero ever!

Seriously, this whole expansion's story was a mess. If you want to make a character so central to the narrative they're basically the protagonist, you're going to shoot yourself in a foot because it will all fall flat if your player doesn't care for them, but Dawntrail went the extra mile and made me actively despise Wuk Lamat and her hypocrisy that's never truly addressed. Zoraal Ja's actions obviously weren't right, but I feel the writing utterly fails him and his potential as a character.

I still like him, at the end of the day. A hell of a lot more than most other showings.

[OliverQ]

I agree with most of what you said. This expansion, primarily the MSQ part, was a huge disappointment for me. The first half was just really slow, and it took forever to get to the first dungeon and some actual interesting content. While I don't hate Wuk Lamat as much as people here do and I like that she developed a little and got less obnoxious than she was in the post-EW quests, I feel like they relied on her way too much and it made the WoL basically useless other than moral support for Wuk. And so much of her writing is just bad. I lost count of how much dialogue from her was just "I care about my people and I will not give up until I'm the Dawnservant!" The Wuk/Koana duo was very predictable. I guessed they would share Dawnservant as soon as they mentioned how intelligent/reasonable Koana was, thus they needed the 2 person equivalent of Galool Ja Ja.

And I'm sure some people like it, but I don't like the Solution Nine plot. For one, it feels way too disjointed from the theme of the first half. It feels like 2 unrelated expansions. And I almost walked away from the computer from the dialogue about uploading people to the cloud. Solution Nine just feels like Apple headquarters complete with a shopping mall. Furthermore, it felt like they were attempting to create a world-ending threat with Alexandria invading the Source. Isn't that what people didn't want after ShB/EW? If we're going down that route, give me Shadowbringers 2.0 complete with an amazing story.

And the last zone, Living Memory, was the most boring part of the whole thing. It felt like a bigger slog than ARR. Going to 4 quadrants to talk to dead people to pretend to care about why they no longer want to exist, complete with Las Vegas and Venice Italy themes. I was so bored with that entire zone, I almost skipped the whole thing. That was such a disappointing end to the expansion. By far my least favorite zone in the expac.

I will say the dungeons and trials are some of the best they've ever done and that's really the only saving grace of this expansion so far.

I don't know how they can at this point, but they need a massive overhaul of the story in the post-7.0 patches. Bring Ishikawa back or find someone as talented as she is, because the current writing and story just doesn't cut it.