When are we as player going to demand from SE a better MSQ experience

[Roda]

the new story is great, and its the start of a new adventure
If you dont like the new story, all I have to say is, you have missed what Yoshi has been saying this whole time...
Dawntrail is the BEGINNING of a NEW STORY

i want to push buttons and be tested on my participation while experiencing a new story.

[caffe_macchiato]

I mean, this is the Final Fantasy brand published by Square Enix. What makes you think they listen to fans?

the new story is great, and its the start of a new adventure
If you dont like the new story, all I have to say is, you have missed what Yoshi has been saying this whole time...
Dawntrail is the BEGINNING of a NEW STORY

Great cope! I love seeing this from nearly every single person who tries defending this game without actually saying anything positive. I dare you, say something good about the story. You won't, because you can't. You have a dozen posts lambasting critics without actually saying why they're wrong. Should fans really be expected to spend $40 for the chance to spend another $40 in three years to play the real expansion? And I thought that WoW's expansion plan was insane!

As OP said, this isn't about the story but the gameplay of the MSQ. But you conflate the two because there is no gameplay for the most part. The only thing that's here is the story. Shadowbringers and Endwalker worked as visual novels because the story was good. But without a good story, you need gameplay. That's why ARR was a success: despite being derided as having the "worst plot", it had far more gameplay content than any other expansion including 16 dungeons, 7 trials and 5 raids on release day. You cannot sell a visual novel without a decent plot or an MMO without gameplay, and yet that's what Dawntrail is on launch. Square Enix failed, and yet again, it has to pick up the pieces after the fact. I fully expect plenty of groveling from Yoshida unless he's learned from his Square Enix mentors, in which case he'll say nothing as the company continues to flounder.

[Valkret]

the new story is great, and its the start of a new adventure
If you dont like the new story, all I have to say is, you have missed what Yoshi has been saying this whole time...
Dawntrail is the BEGINNING of a NEW STORY

My very first sentence was "First off, I am not referring to the story." You clearly did not read past the title and your brain decided to shut off the moment you perceived something as negative about the game.

[GodModule]

I dunno if I can even force myself through this MSQ, I don't mind the fact the story is possibly filler (not too far into it to judge atm), but the gameplay has become so mindnumbingly boring. I don't think I've died while exploring since Heavensward 9 years ago. There's no sense of threat, no sense of progression, no wonder or sense of exploration, no anticipation.Everything is instant gratification. Adding ontop of the continious dumbing down of the battle system and jobs, I genuinely think this is my last expansion.

[Hycinthus]

Is FFXIV the least engaging comparatively to other big MMOs in terms of MSQs?

How do other big MMOs (WoW, GW2, ESO) handle their MSQs? Are they more engaging? Can anyone shed light?

Least engaging here means --> loss of control of character, passively watching cutscene, no battle, etc.

[koko-on-da-forumz]

Is FFXIV the least engaging comparatively to other big MMOs in terms of MSQs?

How do other big MMOs (WoW, GW2, ESO) handle their MSQs? Are they more engaging? Can anyone shed light?

Least engaging here means --> loss of control of character, passively watching cutscene, no battle, etc.

I can only speak for GW2, but it basically hasn't had cutscenes for a long time. You're always in control of your character while the story happens, and as a result it's all voiced.

This has positives and negatives. It's a lot less cinematic, obviously, but that's somewhat mitigated with gorgeous framing (see: Aurene's final scene in EoD). But at this point, if I had to choose between a 30 hour cutscene and a story told in a less cinematic manner, I'll go for the latter. None of that is to say that GW2 is a bastion of storytelling or any thing.

[HighlanderClone]

Great cope! I love seeing this from nearly every single person who tries defending this game without actually saying anything positive. I dare you, say something good about the story. You won't, because you can't

You're so based.

So much defenses are drones repeating the last thing they heard from Yoshi P.

What is intrinsically good about having a low stakes story lol? A low stakes story can either be good or bad.

It's just so obvious the only thing they're capable of is regurgitating what Yoshi P told them. I daresay 90% of their enjoyment isn't even coming from the game but coming from CBU3 telling them that this is gonna be great. Like a father telling his toddler "hey it's so fun picking up these scraps on the floor! Yay!" And his little son picks up garbage enjoying himself the whole time.

[NanaWiloh]

In the back of my mind a voice is saying "Ok, Lighter story is fine depending on the player of course. But lightening up the gameplay as well is going to drive people nuts" Gameplay is obiviously not the only thing driving people nuts. But to each their own as they say..

[Valkret]

Is FFXIV the least engaging comparatively to other big MMOs in terms of MSQs?

How do other big MMOs (WoW, GW2, ESO) handle their MSQs? Are they more engaging? Can anyone shed light?

Least engaging here means --> loss of control of character, passively watching cutscene, no battle, etc.

I can't speak for ESO, but I've played the other two extensively.

Purely form a gameplay perspective I would rank then as such: GW2>WOW>>>>>FFXIV
From a lore and story perspective I would rank them as such: FFXIV>>>>>WOW>GW2

GW2 delivers its story with very little loss of character control. There are some cutscenes here and there, but for the most part each story chapter is heavily focused on gameplay. Lots of exploration, jumping puzzles, battling other enemies and some bosses which are actually quite fun and challenging. And after you are done with a story chapter it usually opens a new area/map which is dynamic, meaning there are events that change the layout of the map and eventually culminate in large map events. Not to mention the zones are full of secrets and fun challenges such as races, jumping puzzles, etc.

Wow is a little more traditional, you go from one zone to the other completing quests, and the story is drip fed to you through these same quests, and standard cutscenes here and there. Other than these cutscenes you basically never lose control of your character. The zones over the years have become more engaging with world quests, treasures and rare mobs to find, but they are not nearly as interactive as GW2.

And FFXIV well you know how it goes. Where FFXIV wins by a country mile, like is not even close, is on story delivery and dungeon/trail/raid encounter design (not mechanics, but design stuff like music and ambience of the encounter.) The world development and character lore in FFXIV is so far ahead of the other two is not even a fair comparison.

[Eyrilona]

Great cope! I love seeing this from nearly every single person who tries defending this game without actually saying anything positive. I dare you, say something good about the story. You won't, because you can't. You have a dozen posts lambasting critics without actually saying why they're wrong. Should fans really be expected to spend $40 for the chance to spend another $40 in three years to play the real expansion?

I agree. The whole 'it is the beginning of a new story' argument is done to a tedium by now. It is like if I were to go to dine and people tell me not to complain about the appetizer because I shouldn't expect it to be as impressive as a main course -- except, I am not complaining that the appetizer is not a main course, I am complaining that the charcuterie smells off and the sauce was served curdled. There are basic standards of quality for all things, whether that is in cooking or in game design, and if something fails at those basic standards then you can't defend the product against claims it is bad just by saying it isn't supposed to be the highlight yet. Being only the first part to greater things to come is irrelevant, an appetizer that fails basic standards that we could reasonably expect from an appetizer is a bad appetizer and can be called that.