Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

[Sindele]

I appreciate the recognition.

But I would probably avoid trotting out the 'just consume product' line while trying to defend the valor of a thread where we've got people who hated Endwalker, hated 6.x, and are now here to die on the hill of a character in Dawntrail being the worst writing since the dawn of mankind. Eventually, you've gotta come to terms with what you're repeatedly paying for.

[CosmoBabylonia]

I appreciate the recognition.

But I would probably avoid trotting out the 'just consume product' line while trying to defend the valor of a thread where we've got people who hated Endwalker, hated 6.x, and are now here to die on the hill of a character in Dawntrail being the worst writing since the dawn of mankind. Eventually, you've gotta come to terms with what you're repeatedly paying for.

If I could get my money back for the remaining 29 days of sub, I would man....

[Azureskies01]

I appreciate the recognition.

But I would probably avoid trotting out the 'just consume product' line while trying to defend the valor of a thread where we've got people who hated Endwalker, hated 6.x, and are now here to die on the hill of a character in Dawntrail being the worst writing since the dawn of mankind. Eventually, you've gotta come to terms with what you're repeatedly paying for.

You are right, Played in 1.0, the alpha and beta for 2.0, through 2.0 till now (on and off of course) and I can safely say im probably done until they do a rewrite of this expansion and recast Wuk.

It really is sad but here we are. SE killing their "story" mmo by having a -redacted- story, genius.

[SirShady]

I appreciate the recognition.

But I would probably avoid trotting out the 'just consume product' line while trying to defend the valor of a thread where we've got people who hated Endwalker, hated 6.x, and are now here to die on the hill of a character in Dawntrail being the worst writing since the dawn of mankind. Eventually, you've gotta come to terms with what you're repeatedly paying for.

WAHHH! Everyone who holds x opinion also holds y and z opinion! Everyone with a differing opinion from mine is a hivemind! Why does everyone have to be a hivemind instead of thinking exactly as I do?!

[Sindele]

WAHHH! I don't like when people voice opinions I disagree with! People who don't like the thing I like clearly are contrarians who don't like anything! Subjective criticism doesn't belong on discussion forums!

It's interesting to try and write this as a mocking response when two thirds of it is literally the argument you're making.

Public criticism begets public criticism.

WAHHH! Everyone who holds x opinion also holds y and z opinion! Everyone with a differing opinion from mine is a hivemind! Why does everyone have to be a hivemind instead of thinking exactly as I do?!

If you step up in someone's defense, you generally get conflated with their opinion, yeah. Case in point: I've never actually stated my opinion on the character or the story, but some assumptions have already been made, haven't they?

[SirShady]

It's interesting to try and write this as a mocking response when two thirds of it is literally the argument you're making.

Public criticism begets public criticism.

If you step up in someone's defense, you generally get conflated with their opinion, yeah. Case in point: I've never actually stated my opinion on the character or the story, but some assumptions have already been made, haven't they?

And your "criticism" is just so brave and insightful! "People in here can't follow the plot of a picture book.". No direct reference to who you're talking to. No discussion from your end regarding the story or the character we're discussing. Just "people in here are dumb". Absolutely mindblowing commentary!

You're right! You sure haven't stated your opinion on the story or the character! Your only opinion thus far as been "everyone in here is dumb" and "I don't like when people make threads disliking characters". Welcome! This is called a forum! Here we discuss our opinions on the game, its plot, and characters!

Please, bless us with more of your boundless insight and incredibly well thought out criticism! You have so many interesting and relevant things to say!

[Sindele]

And your "criticism" is just so brave and insightful! "People in here can't follow the plot of a picture book.". No direct reference to who you're talking to. No discussion from your end regarding the story or the character we're discussing. Just "people in here are dumb". Absolutely mindblowing commentary!

You're right! You sure haven't stated your opinion on the story or the character! Your only opinion thus far as been "everyone in here is dumb" and "I don't like when people make threads disliking characters". Welcome! This is called a forum! Here we discuss our opinions on the game, its plot, and characters!

Please, bless us with more of your boundless insight and incredibly well thought out criticism! You have so many interesting and relevant things to say!

Oh, yes, such rich discussion and luminous insights such as 'ruining the story' and 'cringe'. Forgive me for borrowing the tone of 'aimless contempt' and the sin of choosing to point it in your direction instead.

Regardless, since you asked so nicely:

My chief opinion of this thread is that I think this is a rather funny case of 'be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it'. How many posts and threads bang on about 'I'm tired of the Scions I'm tired of the twins I want something new'? Well, what do you expect a new character to be? Because if you want that new character to be part of an actual story, they're going to come in imperfect, flawed, and with internal conflicts - or else there's no story to tell. And a funny thing about that - flawed people coming into direct contact with their flaws (ie. the conflict, ie. the entire point of storytelling) have a habit of things that are perhaps stupid, annoying, or unwise. Because the point is to overcome those flaws. To stop being stupid and annoying. To become a better person.

I realize that people here may have little experience with these concepts, but this is, like, the underpinning of all storytelling. Don't know how else to break it to you.

[SirShady]

Oh, yes, such rich discussion and luminous insights such as 'ruining the story' and 'cringe'. Forgive me for borrowing the tone of 'aimless contempt' and the sin of choosing to point it in your direction instead.

Regardless, since you asked so nicely:

My chief opinion of this thread is that I think this is a rather funny case of 'be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it'. How many posts and threads bang on about 'I'm tired of the Scions I'm tired of the twins I want something new'? Well, what do you expect a new character to be? Because if you want that new character to be part of an actual story, they're going to come in imperfect, flawed, and with internal conflicts - or else there's no story to tell. And a funny thing about that - flawed people coming into direct contact with their flaws (ie. the conflict, ie. the entire point of storytelling) have a habit of things that are perhaps stupid, annoying, or unwise. Because the point is to overcome those flaws. To stop being stupid and annoying. To become a better person.

I realize that people here may have little experience with these concepts, but this is, like, the underpinning of all storytelling. Don't know how else to break it to you.

Yes, because those two quotes you took from thin air are the only criticisms to be found in this 20 page thread. You've really done your research!

And there's a massive difference between "We want someone different from the usual cast of scions" and "We want an annoying trope-y 'inexperienced ruler' character who hogs the majority of the screentime with her wacky antics and constant self-esteem issues". Flawed characters are great. New characters are great. Even common writing tropes like the 'inexperienced ruler' can be great if done well. Wuk Lamat is just not interesting or endearing to many people, and she's the main character of the entire expansion.

Watching her fall down or cry over something she doesn't like is not peak comedy. Watching her realize that relying on friends is important is not interesting character development. We literally just did that with Zero. We've seen it. For a lot of us, it's bland and boring and taking away from the overall experience of the rest of the expansion.

The fact that you can't understand these basic concepts of storytelling can be done well or poorly based on the execution of the writing, or that people have subjective opinions on how these concepts are implemented into a story, says a lot about your ability to have meaningful discussions. Don't know how else to break it to you.

[Elodie_Einsbern]

I appreciate the recognition.

But I would probably avoid trotting out the 'just consume product' line while trying to defend the valor of a thread where we've got people who hated Endwalker, hated 6.x, and are now here to die on the hill of a character in Dawntrail being the worst writing since the dawn of mankind. Eventually, you've gotta come to terms with what you're repeatedly paying for.

See this is what happens when you just generalize everyone with no real rational thought. I don't care what other people have said about other expansions. Will different people have issues with different things? Yup they sure will

I might have had some disagreements on design, or thought certain things were stupid. But overall, I have been happy with ARR and all the other expansions. I thought post 6.0 was a little boring, but it was whatever

But for me, so far this expansion MSQ has been a raging dumpster fire of issues with the story.
"you've gotta come to terms with what you're repeatedly paying for"
Your right, that's why I'm complaining. Because I have been paying for a game with good story telling, and I did not receive that in my very personal opinion.

If this was a book, or a TV show, I would have dropped it very quickly. And that's not what I have been paying for and expecting all these years with FFXIV.



edit-And let me add, that I have taken time off work every single expansion to be able to enjoy the story because I was excited to play. Yesterday I literally said out loud, "I should have just went to work"
granted I enjoy my job, but I have never thought that for any other expansion launch.