This story is really underwhelming - it's opened to mixed reviews.

[TBerry]

So it is underwhelming because we finally burried the ascians for good which has been a part of the game from ARR to EW... thanks for getting rid of that and giving us something new, but I guess people like these Ascians like Lahabrea.... I think it is underwhelming that people can't move on, onto something new, that has not been thinned out as this entire Ascian thing has.

I cannot take Lahahabrea seriously. Though they did give us this gem:

"HAHAHAHAHA!"
"SuCh DeVaStAtIoN! tHaT wAs NoT mY iNtEnTiOn!"

[Loggos]

Sorry for the double post but I wanted to add another point:

I think this expansion really highlights the problem of their pacing.

3 zones before our first dungeon is too long.

Yes, I know this is not new and they went the "choose your zone, complete them both, then run your first dungeon" route in past expansions. But back then I already thought this wasn't good.

The only thing that saved this pacing decision in the past, was the fact that the story was interesting enough to put up with an exceedingly long story prelude and fetch quests until you get the first thing to do.

DT's story strips even this point away and really showcases how bad this pacing choice is.

It takes hours until the first dungeon. This is several episodes of a Netflix show. Imagine you watched a show but it takes 5-6 1h episodes until it gets interesting.
Only, that in this case those hours consist of MMO-quality cutscenes, many of them unvoiced, reading lots of dialogue, running from A to B etc..

Battle content is the main game play mechanic of the game. Think of any other game that bars you from engaging in its core gameplay and forces you to be passive for several hours, even worse if it is content you don't enjoy.
(I'm talking about new content here. Yes, I can always stop and do something else. But the point of the story is that I want to do something new. This includes new battle content.)

I'm not a "battle first" person. I love good stories in games. But the beginning of DT is unfortunately so sluggish that, when we returned from the first two "choose your path"-zones, I was about to give up when I had to do yet another "escort NPC through the city" quest...

Please SE, in future expansions, give us more to do at an earlier point in the story. If you don't want to let us into a dungeon earlier then at least give us instanced fights or have us do FATES or anything really.

If even story-focused players feel like they have to force themselves to keep playing or start skipping cutscenes only so that they can get to the point where we actually do something then something is wrong.

[LittleArrow]

Knew people would bitch? Huh? It's not my fault the devs couldn't develop an interesting villain or hell, even Wuk Lamat's motive is so basic and uninteresting. The bland characters totally clash with the excellent maps and art design. The only thing pushing the story forward is humor and very vague mystery.

On top of that we just aren't doing anything fun. This area is desperately crying out for mini games or something. It just feels very under developed. How many people are even developing this game anymore? Dawntrails msq feels like they just gave up. It's more than just bad.

Erenville is also totally being wasted imo. There was a moment where I felt like I was going to learn something about him then the game was like "lol no just enjoy this sick lighting".

The pacing is also total garbage. Good thing I have Fates bc there's nothing to do for literal hours.

This is what genuinely disappoints me. Everything in the expansion area is so incredibly well done. The environments are everything I've been asking for. The music is insanely fun and beautiful - despite Tuliyollal's main theme being super out of place, it's still really beautifully made! The races are really interesting. Everything should be 10/10 of yet this is the first time in 10+yrs I've ever taken a break to just go do some daily roulettes because the story was so unfun and not at all engaging. Everything is set up to be a homerun and the writers couldn't have dropped the ball harder.

I refuse to give this expansion the excuse of "well it's set up!" Fellowship of the Rings was setup, every expansion before shadowbringers was a delving into a new story (Ishgard with the Dragonsong war had no narrative bearing on Eorzea's city states coming together, Stormblood's entire Kugane / Doma / Aura story was essential a side story parralleling Ala Mihgo). Yet, somehow all of those expansions were exceptionally engaging and genuinely exciting to go through.

So far there's nothing. I don't care about the city of gold b/c the story hasn't told me anything besides a certain someone whispering about it in a memory that I've forgotten b/c of the post patch of EW. There's literally nothing. What, I'm supposed to be afraid of a bad leader taking over? Yeah, I'm not. I'll beat them in a raid, or I'll suffer to liberate their subjects, or I'll be the hero this game has set my character to be for 10+yrs of struggle, success, failures, and mistakes. I want to love this expansion. It's made beautifully, sounds beautifully, looks beautifully (aside from character upgrades... gah it's bad), and the story alone has made a 10 turn into a 2 so far... it's awful.

[Themarvin]

It's not about Ascians. Vautry was ShB's villain for the most part and that whole arc was incredibly interesting even when the Ascians weren't revealed yet and the boss fight was very rewarding.
It's about stakes, pacing and the depth of the story telling.

SHB was all about Ascians as well and what they was before becoming a problem, it is facts, the biggest diversity to be had was Bozja and Eureka and similar content... else it has all been rounded up around Ascians, The Empire and Zenos x 2.

Since you saw the first Ascian dressed person in ARR up to EW... well judge for yourself, we got a new start with what we got now and that should had happened at least 2 expansions ago

[Loggos]

This is what genuinely disappoints me. Everything in the expansion area is so incredibly well done. The environments are everything I've been asking for. The music is insanely fun and beautiful - despite Tuliyollal's main theme being super out of place, it's still really beautifully made! The races are really interesting. Everything should be 10/10 of yet this is the first time in 10+yrs I've ever taken a break to just go do some daily roulettes because the story was so unfun and not at all engaging. Everything is set up to be a homerun and the writers couldn't have dropped the ball harder.

I completely agree. The area of the Hanuhanu village is easily the most beautiful zone the have ever crafted in my personal opinion. It is so beautiful that it really makes me want to spend time there instead of just being a quest backdrop. You can see all the love and care that was put into it. The colours are perfectly balanced, it's spacious yet feels like a forest, etc. etc.

The potential is there. Imo even the story and Wuk Lamat herself are not inherently bad choices. They could have made so much out of both of them.

[Loggos]

SHB was all about Ascians as well and what they was before becoming a problem, it is facts, the biggest diversity to be had was Bozja and Eureka and similar content... else it has all been rounded up around Ascians, The Empire and Zenos x 2.

Since you saw the first Ascian dressed person in ARR up to EW... well judge for yourself, we got a new start with what we got now and that should had happened at least 2 expansions ago

I think you completely missed what I was trying to say.

Yes, the Ascians are always in the background. But ShB was (like Stormblood or Heavensward) it's own self-contained story/episode in a bigger narrative arc. That arc is driven by the Ascians. But in ShB itself your main adversary for most of the game time is Vautry, culminating in him becoming Innocence. Only then the Ascians really become relevant in terms of actual gameplay.

And yet, all the way from lvl 70 to 79 the Vautry-centric and lightbringer-centric story is really compelling in its own right.
The premise of "light-themed horror/demons" was fascinating in itself and would not have been any less so if it has been caused by something other than the Ascians.

[Flay_wind]

I don't think it's a bad children's cartoon, it's a tweens self insert fan fic, where the Saviour of the world follows her around and helps her to be come the leader because peace and love and we're best friends forever :'D


I'd be all for the slower pace and I would find Wuk 60% more tolerable if we the more experienced person were teaching her, when she does things wrong we help her she realises her mistakes, develops and learns as a character. instead she screws up constantly we sort of fix things and they she comes out smelling of roses and everyone cheering she's just so awsome, it's bloody tiring. How did we go from ARR ultima functionally being a nuke, to this.........

It's simple, really.

[Kefzka]

To be fair, the Ascians aren’t gone for good. Only the unsundered and Fandaniel have been slain permanently. Although I forget what happened to Elidibus. There are still all kinds of sundered ascians including the WoL and those of the other convocation members.

There is a whole lot of room and places the story can go so Tural was an odd choice to make both lore and pacing wise. There’s still other reflections for us to check on and convocation members to check out. I may be wrong on this part but I also don’t remember ever hearing anything about Tural until the end of Endwalker but it’s supposed to be this massive continent with a people that could bring war to Eorzea but somehow the final days didn’t visit them. I’m struggling with this idea that this massive continent with these powerful people were never mentioned until after we solved the final days.

[Kefzka]

Sorry for the double post but I wanted to add another point:

I think this expansion really highlights the problem of their pacing.

3 zones before our first dungeon is too long.

Yes, I know this is not new and they went the "choose your zone, complete them both, then run your first dungeon" route in past expansions. But back then I already thought this wasn't good.

The only thing that saved this pacing decision in the past, was the fact that the story was interesting enough to put up with an exceedingly long story prelude and fetch quests until you get the first thing to do.

DT's story strips even this point away and really showcases how bad this pacing choice is.

It takes hours until the first dungeon. This is several episodes of a Netflix show. Imagine you watched a show but it takes 5-6 1h episodes until it gets interesting.
Only, that in this case those hours consist of MMO-quality cutscenes, many of them unvoiced, reading lots of dialogue, running from A to B etc..

Battle content is the main game play mechanic of the game. Think of any other game that bars you from engaging in its core gameplay and forces you to be passive for several hours, even worse if it is content you don't enjoy.
(I'm talking about new content here. Yes, I can always stop and do something else. But the point of the story is that I want to do something new. This includes new battle content.)

I'm not a "battle first" person. I love good stories in games. But the beginning of DT is unfortunately so sluggish that, when we returned from the first two "choose your path"-zones, I was about to give up when I had to do yet another "excort NPC through the city" quest...

Please SE, in future expansions, give us more to do at an earlier point in the story. If you don't want to let us into a dungeon earlier then at least give us instanced fights or have us do FATES or anything really.

If even story-focused players feel like they have to force themselves to keep playing or start skipping cutscenes only so that they can get to the point where we actually do something then something is wrong.

Fighting jumped out at me the most. It must’ve been at least 1-2 hours before I even drew my weapon. When I did draw it, I smoked everything so quickly I was still adapting to the kit changes when I hit the first dungeon. The dungeon was gorgeous but underwhelming. I wanted to try out the new portal to boss when you wipe but never wiped. It feels very similar to starting a brand new character.

I trust Yoshi-P and believe he knows what he’s doing so we’ll see. He’s more than earned my patience for now.

[Daralii]

There is a whole lot of room and places the story can go so Tural was an odd choice to make both lore and pacing wise. There’s still other reflections for us to check on and convocation members to check out. I may be wrong on this part but I also don’t remember ever hearing anything about Tural until the end of Endwalker but it’s supposed to be this massive continent with a people that could bring war to Eorzea but somehow the final days didn’t visit them. I’m struggling with this idea that this massive continent with these powerful people were never mentioned until after we solved the final days.

It started getting some side narrative focus when BLU came out(and I think at least mentioned in item descriptions before that), it was just always as the New World.