Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[Siy]

"I haven't noticed any change."
"I have!"

Farewell, my love

[jihos]

unfortunately, i really can't say i'm a fan of the changes made to female hyurs (especially face 1). i don't have a lot of screenshots from before the update, but i tried compiling a couple examples i thought showcase the change





there's been a loss of quality in making the gifs, but i'm more pointing out the difference in features rather than the graphic update quality!

[ConantSivrha]

Unrelated to the Benchmark: There is a significant amount of gloss with the new changes.

(Changing the gamma levels help, but it also darkens the brightness of the game.)

I would like to add that, in some lighting conditions, there is the appearance of gloss in Endwalker but not in Dawntrail. (Note: The character in my images has lip color enabled.)



But...man. The changes to the size and shape of face 4 mouth 3 are so obvious. I was going to make a separate post about it, but your picture is a better example than mine. The lips look thinner, and the mouth itself looks narrower horizontally. It almost looks like it got even smaller since the benchmark---I think they might've shrunk the lips a bit to add the gap back in? Personally, I'd like it if the gap was optional.

The bottom and top lips have changed from a tapered shape to a rounded shape, especially near the corners of the mouth on the bottom lip. On the top lip, the cupid's bow looks smoothed out and less prominent. Along with the change in overall mouth size, these shape changes were introduced in the benchmark and seemingly intensified in the release version.

The release version's resting face seems to frown a bit more than it used to, though it's less noticeable outside of the character creator or aesthetician menu.



Even though I disliked the benchmark version, too, I think this mouth was better in the benchmark than it is in Dawntrail.

Also, in-game, and depending on lighting conditions, the bottom lip can seem to have a dark line on the bottom, and the area above the top lip and right below the corners of the lips can look lighter than the rest of the skin and/or catch the light weirdly. These things sometimes create the look of harsh lines around the lips and/or a milk mustache.

Got graphics?

[Eilous]

Gave my feedbacks for Elezens during the 2nd benchmark, as well as others who took the effort to feedback. However, nothing was done by the developers and I was extremely disappointed not only for my elezens, as well as others' elezens. I shall just post what I'd feedback before.




Male Elezen, Wildwood, Face 2
Generally am very happy with the update. However there are some issues I do not fancy.

• The original ear clasps texture is matte. For mine, it looks like bone-white material. In 7.0, the ear clasps are so small and metallic. The colours do not in any way present them as matte.

• The lips look dry in 7.0, the reflection is gone. Not a big issue but it will be nice if the lips can look slightly dewy.

• The neck polygons look awful. Necks are big part of Elezens. It will be great if the polygons can be increased in that area.

• There are shadows under the eyes which annoyed me. This made Face 2 male elezen look so tired and old.

While enjoying 7.0, I noticed there is this weird shadow cast on Male Elezen's face. The shadow extended from the cheekbones to the nose, making them look super old in sunlight.

[Eilous]

Female Elezen, Duskwight, Face 4
Originally, my female elezen has a sharp look. However in 7.0, her sharp look is gone. She looks softer, like a good wife, instead of a badass.

• Her eyebrows in 7.0 has been altered to a lower ark. I have tried looking at other brow types available but the edges are so drastically high in ark. They make her look very angry instead of sharp. The brows made a huge difference to her vibe. I am extremely annoyed by this. Please fix it.

• In 7.0, Her lips were drastically altered. The corner of her lips has been edited into a slight smile. The edge of the original lips are travelling downward, not smiling. 7.0 lips are also slightly thinner than the original lips. The top part of the original lips looks like two Mount Fujis, but 7.0 lips looks like 2 hills. The bottom part of the original lips is more plump than 7.0 lips. Again, this affects the vibe of the character.

• I'd checked her portraits in 7.0, she looks hideous. They messed up her lips for sure. The smile is so different from original, and awkward. The eyes are also very dark. I dislike the model being altered this way.

[maddragonqueen]

I think they might've tried to either add realism/detail or remove some of the glossiness by adding extra bump mapping. I can notice it in a screenshot I just took of a closeup, though only if I zoom in. It might be more noticeable in different lighting or on male characters.

https://files.catbox.moe/wchnd3.png

That's interesting, I'm not sure I really see the same issue in your character that I see with mine. But then, I'm not used to looking at your character's face for hours as I am with my own. I think when I get home later I will play around with the settings and see if it fixes it, but it is very strange. It was present in the benchmark too but I tried to reserve judgment until seeing the finished product.

[Neviklink]

I am not sure if it has been mentioned but I feel the face paint textures are still low res

[noumen0nn]

I wanted to point out the dramatic change to the overall face impression of Midlander Hyur face 1, using my character as an example.




I'm not the world's best artist, but here is a sketch I made to emphasize the difference in features. I used photoshop to morph my initial pencil sketch to be as accurate to the in-game images as possible.

The most stark difference is the eyeliner. In Endwalker, the eyeliner facial feature was very dark, very thick and accentuated, and was shaped very dramatically up-and-out at the outer corners like wing eyeliner. It made Midlanders who used it look sharp, intense, and even intimidating with some facial expressions, which I loved. In contrast, the new eyeliner is thin, uniform in thickness, almost non-existent on the lower eyelid, and changes nothing about the shape or impression of the eyes. The difference between enabling or not enabling the eyeliner in Dawntrail is barely noticeable, whereas in Endwalker it could totally transform the impression of the eyes. I request that the new eyeliner be re-shaped and made darker to match the old eyeliner.

The eyes themselves (I use eye shape 5) are also smaller than they were in Endwalker. This gives midlanders the impression that they are squinting. Exacerbating this issue is the "eye bags", which, while not all that different in terms of geometry, are affected very differently by the new lighting. In Endwalker, the eye bag shapes would be smoothed out and practically invisible in most lighting conditions, whereas in Dawntrail they are pronounced in almost all lighting conditions. This gives Midlanders the impression of having swollen eyes, as if they are having an allergic reaction. I would request the eye shape be changed to match it's pre-Dawntrail shape, and the normal map of the eye bags be adjusted to make them appear less prominent.



(Here is an example of what I mean. As you can see, on the half of her face that is in shadow, the "eye bag" is nearly invisible.)

(1/2)

[noumen0nn]

(2/2)

The nose (nose 4 in this instance) has become slightly wider at the nostrils. This is the least egregious change, but because the eyes and lips are both much smaller, the nose is now a much more prominent aspect of facial balance.

The shape of the lips (type 4), specifically the philtrum and cupids bow, have completely changed. The philtrum is much narrower and straighter, and the cupids bow is "pinched", with the 2 apexes of the upper lip shape being much closer together. This gives the face a much more "aged" impression. I would request the lip shape be changed to match it's pre-Dawntrail shape.

Finally, the lip color shape has also completely changed. The old lip color was full, had a natural and pleasing contour, and reached the corners of the mouth. The new lip color is unnaturally round and doesn't fully cover the lips corner-to-corner, which gives the impression of permanently pursed lips. The lower lip in particular is much more round than it was in Endwalker, making it seem like it has gotten a botox injection. I would request the lip color shape be changed to match it's pre-Dawntrail shape.

[Doopliss]

Lodestone update finally hit my main character... The hair color is off like I thought it'd be, but I already attempted a second bug report and MaxL posted a considerably better example of what's going on with that just a few posts earlier.

However, in spirit of this thread, I will say that I still feel like female Elezen are one of the considerably luckier ones in the graphic update (though I still understand and encourage feedback from those who feel they have more problems with them).

My character's nose, jaw, eye shape, brow shape, etc. are a little different but still fundamentally keep the same feeling as before.


(The bigger one is the new one.)

But I do still request that the lips be brought closer to their previous iteration... The stern lip shape going to a slight smile is really distracting, and, after looking more at the shape, I feel like the more frowny/neutral shape can be brought back by just editing the upper lips to again be wider than the lower ones, and lessening the "curve" on the upper lips just slightly.

I mean, the feeling of the stare in even the forum icon change is notably different when they're at the same size:

(<- New | Old ->)

I'd also like her colored pupils back, but those were so subtle compared to other races that I admittedly feel silly asking...and I can cope with the black pupils even though I'd rather not, haha.

In general though, I feel like adjusting the lip shape should be a big priority for a lot of characters. They've been too homogenized.

And as several people have shown with ♀ Au Ra Face 2 edits (which is one face I must keep whining about until it's fixed!!), just adding the shape of the old lips back does a LOT to restore the character feeling.