IS NEW SMN A JOKE?

[AlphaXXI]

For as long as the mechanics on how each summoning is done will be the same as Endwalker's where multiple summons share a single button, then it will never be engaging and impactful. It will still remain a literal 1 button job.

Even if each demi will have long cast times, again, if it follows the same Endwalker reworked mechanic, it will not change a thing.

The fix to SMN is to introduce another mechanic, preferably involving Carbuncle that is completely separate to the current summoning shenanigans. You can command Carbuncle to execute attacks, debuff enemies, buff allies, heal.. to a certain extent... Next is to put cast times to all the summoning. the stronger the summon, the longer the cast time. the idea is that both parties get what they want.. pets and blinding summons. While casting the primals/demis, you can control Carbuncle.

Having few buttons to press isn't inherently a bad thing though. It's compact. Especially if you can still have only one summon or demi at a time, why have several useless buttons when less than a third of them can be usable at a time ? Might as well regroup some stuff. Variety, options and adaptability are more important than having lots of buttons on your hotbar, the job itself needs to give incentive to think about what you're doing, in what order, and probably more ressource management. I agree that Carbuncle needs more to do, and it'd be interesting to have many different orders you can give it, but having overly long cast times where you can only give it orders would be awkward during mechanics, there'd need to be a very particular balance struck, because even Black Mage gets some mobility.

Not to mention it would also make for a very long rotation if you're still expect to cram in very summon. And I think having several of them in the rotation is the current vision (with the old egi system other than for the demis you very rarely changed which pet you used mid-fight).

Also de we really need to have new threads with the same discussions ? This isn't even a thread meant to talk about how to improve things, OP just complains as ask for more summons, that could really just have been a post somewhere else.

[AlphaXXI]

SMN became a joke the moment the players figured out that literally no one on the dev team (other than Koji Fox playing XI) had ever played a Final Fantasy game prior to working on FFXIV. And it shows every time they show SMN "job changes".

Source ? Sounds very unlikely considering the size of the dev team.

[Siaxisdk]

Source ? Sounds very unlikely considering the size of the dev team.

Source is they made it up to fit their narrative.

[Elkanah]

Source ? Sounds very unlikely considering the size of the dev team.

Tell me youve never played a Final Fantasy game without telling me (considering how long Summoner has been and summons have been in the entire Final Fantasy series.

[Valence]

The issue with the job isnt its simplicity. The job was incredibly popular in EW for both casual and hard content due to it.

The issue with DawnTrails smn is its getting another Bahamut. With the exact move set.

The job is clearly popular because of its simplicity. It just needs a little more versatility.

Its simplicity is definitely another issue.

I can design a dps class with just one button to press and people will love it and play the shit out of it provided it's flashy enough and allows them to clear content with least amount of effort. Popularity of such jobs is clearly not a good indicator of the quality of their design.

[Zofian]

Endwalker Summoner was already a disgrace/embarassment. Dawntrail's Bahamut obviously has no business existing, how is this even happening?

[Galvuu]

Its simplicity is definitely another issue.

I can design a dps class with just one button to press and people will love it and play the shit out of it provided it's flashy enough and allows them to clear content with least amount of effort. Popularity of such jobs is clearly not a good indicator of the quality of their design.

To add a bit onto this thought, it's also disingenuous to think SMN is well-loved in hard content.
SMN is used in Savage and Ultimates because it's easy. It drastically reduces the likelihood of failure, and is very permissive regarding recovery.
A lot of people will compromise on what's "fun" to get the clear done with (which is why they usually reclear on alt jobs). SMN, specifically, is in a relatively hard role (RDM and BLM are both difficult jobs- BLM, in fact, has had the biggest gap from the 25% to 50% percentiles and from 50% to 75% for a few years now). That means it becomes even more attractive to pick it up to speed up prog.
The jump in relative ease from going to, say, DRG to RPR or MCH to DNC compared to BLM to SMN is much smaller.
I'm not saying everyone doesn't like SMN, either, I'm saying the SMN numbers, especially in hard content, are skewed because it's the path of least resistance (by a huge margin).

[rawker]

Too much of anything is bad. EW SMN is the most fitting example of this

[DPZ2]

Tell me youve never played a Final Fantasy game without telling me (considering how long Summoner has been and summons have been in the entire Final Fantasy series.

That's not an answer to the person you were quoting. They were asking you to provide a source for "literally no one on the dev team (other than Koji Fox playing XI) had ever played a Final Fantasy game prior to working on FFXIV."

The poster could have played all of the FF games and still asked for your source that exactly one dev ever played any Final Fantasy game. Smiley face does not excuse the brushoff.

[AlphaXXI]

Tell me youve never played a Final Fantasy game without telling me (considering how long Summoner has been and summons have been in the entire Final Fantasy series.

You making assumptions about me doesn't give any credit to your claim that the dev team hasn't played any of the games. You're just making up justifications for your disappointment. You're allowed to dislike the choices they made, you don't need there to be some conspiracy to justify how on earth someone might have created something you dislike.