IS NEW SMN A JOKE?

[StadtPark]

Seriously! This is a lousy und straight up DISRESPECTFUL update to my favourite Job.

Take a look at Summoner Jobs at the past! The huge variety of summons! And now that they created the perfect opening to add more summons they choose to add Solar Bahamut who looks like a reskin!?

THIS IS TERRIBLE!!! How LAZY and just BORING can you be!?

I do not want to wait another 2 or 3 years for 8.0 for what smn players really wanted.

I wanted a Summoner akin to classic Summoners of the past and they could have done it by switching the Ifrit, Titan and Garuda so simple. SHAME ON THE DEVELOPERS!

If you bother making excuses for the developers please value your time and stop.

Models for Ramuh, Shiva, Leviathan even Sephirot, Sophia, Zurvan are all in the game. I would have even taken Good King Moggle Mog XII or Ravana.

This is more than a disappointment this is an offense to the player base. I hope the Developers see and hear these complaints.

edit: Okay so even if they didn't want to add a whole three new Summons AT LEAST they could have given us a Summon other than a RESKIN BAHAMUT!
How about Alexander as a homage to Heavensward or Shinryu as a homage to Stormblood. We have the Primals so why not use them!?

[Ayalu]

There are large threads about that topic in east and west.
People request the ARR Summons since...well ARR from what i can see.

[remiff]

Seriously! This is a lousy und straight up DISRESPECTFUL update to my favourite Job.

Take a look at Summoner Jobs at the past! The huge variety of summons! And now that they created the perfect opening to add more summons they choose to add Solar Bahamut who looks like a reskin!?

THIS IS TERRIBLE!!! How LAZY and just BORING can you be!?

I do not want to wait another 2 or 3 years for 8.0 for what smn players really wanted.

I wanted a Summoner akin to classic Summoners of the past and they could have done it by switching the Ifrit, Titan and Garuda so simple. SHAME ON THE DEVELOPERS!

If you bother making excuses for the developers please value your time and stop.

Models for Ramuh, Shiva, Leviathan even Sephirot, Sophia, Zurvan are all in the game. I would have even taken Good King Moggle Mog XII or Ravana.

This is more than a disappointment this is an offense to the player base. I hope the Developers see and hear these complaints.

edit: Okay so even if they didn't want to add a whole three new Summons AT LEAST they could have given us a Summon other than a RESKIN BAHAMUT!
How about Alexander as a homage to Heavensward or Shinryu as a homage to Stormblood. We have the Primals so why not use them!?

Yes Solar bahamut is a visual reskin with more potency,
but if they add other summons with the current system it will probably also be reskins of titan, garuda,
ifrit so it's the same if the functioning of the rotation does not change.


To add more elemental summons they would have to change the way the summoner currently works,
and that would clearly require yet another small rework of its foundations.


What is rather annoying beyond Solar Bahamut is that they made no addition to the rotation or small modification to make the summoner a little more attractive so that we could support him 2 years and 6 months before the 8.0

But actually the job feels like a LVL 60 job.

[Valence]

but if they add other summons with the current system it will probably also be reskins of titan, garuda,
ifrit so it's the same if the functioning of the rotation does not change.


To add more elemental summons they would have to change the way the summoner currently works,
and that would clearly require yet another small rework of its foundations.

They can clearly currently make a difference of the minute cycle between the demi summons, Lunar Bahamut > Bahamut > Lunar Bahamut > Phoenix, which means they can also clearly make demis unlock different primals for gemshine use in between without changing any tech or foundation. Currently there is 3 demis, which could leave room for 9 different primals, all with their different play style. Different playstyle, if they actually wanted, but they clearly don't want.

[Taranok]

Yes Solar bahamut is a visual reskin with more potency,
but if they add other summons with the current system it will probably also be reskins of titan, garuda,
ifrit so it's the same if the functioning of the rotation does not change.


To add more elemental summons they would have to change the way the summoner currently works,
and that would clearly require yet another small rework of its foundations.


What is rather annoying beyond Solar Bahamut is that they made no addition to the rotation or small modification to make the summoner a little more attractive so that we could support him 2 years and 6 months before the 8.0

But actually the job feels like a LVL 60 job.

The way I'd look at it is this: Instead of visual reskins, make summons that are randomly chosen for a given color but DPS-neutral with each other. That is, same rotation length but different way of getting to it.

For example, Garuda and Ramuh paired together. Garuda is 1 slipstream 4 winds at 9.5s cast time. Ramuh is 5 1.5s lightning bolts and 1 2 second cast lightning attack. Both are 9.5 seconds long and both do, completely arbitrarily speaking, 1300 potency.

Red can randomly be Shiva. Ifrit is 2 2.8s casts + 2 2.5s for 10.6 seconds baseline. So Shiva can be a 3 step sword combo for 7.5 seconds and 1 3.1s cast for a giant glacier. Again, arbitrarily speaking.

Titan is 10s of rocker rotation, let it also summon leviathan. This one's harder to really design well but could honestly be the inverse. Instead of the 1-2 spam it could be 2-1, or it could be 2-1-1-2-1-1 with 2s long 2s and 1.5s long 1s, where 1 is your Gemshine and 2 is your astral flow.

Summoner in the past was defined more by how its rotation had minor changes in the texture of the rotation. Even in ShB it was basically a texture shift between your DWT, demi bahamut, rest period leading to Demi Phoenix, FBT/DP, and the rest towards DWT reset. As long as it's DPS neutral and length neutral with its paired attack, then no one should care about which you get.

Frankly, it doesn't even need to be random.

My point is, there's more than enough ways to skin this cat, and it certainly doesn't need to be just reskins. I'd also like for solar bahamut, DP, and DB to have slightly different rotations. There's 100 ways to make this work provided it offers some texture differences to the rotation but keeps everything's relative length the same.

[remiff]

The way I'd look at it is this: Instead of visual reskins, make summons that are randomly chosen for a given color but DPS-neutral with each other. That is, same rotation length but different way of getting to it.

For example, Garuda and Ramuh paired together. Garuda is 1 slipstream 4 winds at 9.5s cast time. Ramuh is 5 1.5s lightning bolts and 1 2 second cast lightning attack. Both are 9.5 seconds long and both do, completely arbitrarily speaking, 1300 potency.

Red can randomly be Shiva. Ifrit is 2 2.8s casts + 2 2.5s for 10.6 seconds baseline. So Shiva can be a 3 step sword combo for 7.5 seconds and 1 3.1s cast for a giant glacier. Again, arbitrarily speaking.

Titan is 10s of rocker rotation, let it also summon leviathan. This one's harder to really design well but could honestly be the inverse. Instead of the 1-2 spam it could be 2-1, or it could be 2-1-1-2-1-1 with 2s long 2s and 1.5s long 1s, where 1 is your Gemshine and 2 is your astral flow.

Summoner in the past was defined more by how its rotation had minor changes in the texture of the rotation. Even in ShB it was basically a texture shift between your DWT, demi bahamut, rest period leading to Demi Phoenix, FBT/DP, and the rest towards DWT reset. As long as it's DPS neutral and length neutral with its paired attack, then no one should care about which you get.

Frankly, it doesn't even need to be random.

My point is, there's more than enough ways to skin this cat, and it certainly doesn't need to be just reskins. I'd also like for solar bahamut, DP, and DB to have slightly different rotations. There's 100 ways to make this work provided it offers some texture differences to the rotation but keeps everything's relative length the same.

Certainly, but it won't change the feeling of the rotation; it will remain homogenized over two buttons, and thus he won't be able to get real impressions of change in the way they play. If they respect the invocation times to keep it on a 60-second cycle, then why not, but they can't really change the feeling of each invocation with this system—they will remain copies of each other no matter what.

All we would have are green, yellow, red buttons, and then blue, gray, and purple buttons.
But apart from the visuals, the way it will be played won't be different because it will all remain on two buttons for single target and on a 60-second cycle.

Personally, with this system, I don't see any change that couldn't just be reskins without at least touching the foundations of the current summoner.

The only chance to get more identity for the summons in the rotation is if they change the foundations of the SMN again. Otherwise, we will have exactly the same thing as with the current Demis,
which is 11111 astral flow galvanization but with no flavor behind it. Even if they make you do 2121 or 1212, it will not change the feeling at all.

[Galvuu]

Seriously! This is a lousy und straight up DISRESPECTFUL update to my favourite Job.

Yes, it's a joke.
Well, it's a lie about the promise of it being a foundation for something more interesting and a joke on top of it.
I mained this job last expac :')

[rawker]

Let's be clear here.. SMN became a joke with rework during endwalker.

[Elkanah]

SMN became a joke the moment the players figured out that literally no one on the dev team (other than Koji Fox playing XI) had ever played a Final Fantasy game prior to working on FFXIV. And it shows every time they show SMN "job changes".

SMN is nowhere close to being like classic SMN in any way, shape, or form.

Similarly- while Im excited for beastmaster, I know theyre planning on screwing that up too (considering it was announced as another limited job with no way to use it for msq purposes and be leveled up side by side with all the other jobs to 100)

[AlphaXXI]

SMN became a joke the moment the players figured out that literally no one on the dev team (other than Koji Fox playing XI) had ever played a Final Fantasy game prior to working on FFXIV. And it shows every time they show SMN "job changes".

Source ? Sounds very unlikely considering the size of the dev team.