Please reconsider 7.0 BLM changes

[Voidmage]

I think this change would legitimately help them, because one of its effects is making it much easier to cast six Fire IVs in an astral cycle. Remember, astral paradox is instant cast and grants an automatic Firestarter proc that's no longer a loss to use immediately, so you get a minimum of two free, instant AF3 refreshes over the course of a cycle (and a third free movement opportunity that's less under your control because it depends on when Thunder is expiring, although in a pinch using High Thunder to move is still going to output more damage at less MP cost than resorting to Scathe).

This means that someone who previously struggled with finding a way to safely cast three or four F4s in a row can now cast them in three sets of two or something.

If you do three sets then sure, I guess it will help those players.
But it will be more clunky then making the timer longer because instant cast always give this awkward waiting time after casting them.
For everyone who did managed to get 6 F4's in it will be more railroaded because either you do 4 F4's > Paradox > 3 F4's or have enough spellspeed for it to have some comfort and that sucks for those who liked lower spell speeds.

If the goal was to make everything easier then removing UI Paradox makes even less sense because it was a nice saving tool for movement or after an emergency transposing to ice.
I just don't understand the goal in the design changes other then charging mana in UI phase instead of sever ticks.

Off the top of my head and without doing any math, I'm guessing that the new opener goes like the current one, where you use F3, Thunder (which is now free and instant, so you can comfortably slam down leylines and triplecast or something right here), as many F4s followed by a Despair as you can, and then Manafont. However, since Manafont is vastly stronger now, you then proceed into a completely normal astral cycle, making sure to drop your Xeno and possibly refresh Thunder before raid buffs run out.

It's possible that we use only Swift and a single Triple to start so we have another Triple ready to go Fire IV-Despair-Flare Star at the end of the post-Manafont astral phase.

I think it depends on the potency of the new finisher. As it is now its not worth it to start in UI just to get the stacks for it but potencies can change so we probably will only know when Dawntrail goes live.

[Ferrinus]

If you do three sets then sure, I guess it will help those players.
But it will be more clunky then making the timer longer because instant cast always give this awkward waiting time after casting them.
For everyone who did managed to get 6 F4's in it will be more railroaded because either you do 4 F4's > Paradox > 3 F4's or have enough spellspeed for it to have some comfort and that sucks for those who liked lower spell speeds.

Basically, the fact that we'll be refreshing AF3 with instant spells means that a refresh buys us 12.5 seconds instead of 15 seconds, but, having a whole extra refresh means that we're going to have a potential 15 + 12.5 + 12.5 = 40 seconds of AF3 time total, where before we had around 30. So I'm not at all worried about this increasing difficulty for newer or weaker players.

I think it depends on the potency of the new finisher. As it is now its not worth it to start in UI just to get the stacks for it but potencies can change so we probably will only know when Dawntrail goes live.

Right now, Flare Star hits only a little harder than Despair, although that might change. I guess the question is whether A) fire opener lets you cast Flare Star under raid buffs B) ice opener lets you cast Flare Star under raid buffs (an ice opener contains like 11 GCDs before flare star, after all) C) a fight's length is such that going fire vs. ice actually changes how many Flare Stars you can cast all together. I'm guessing that not casting B3 or B4 makes up for casting your first Flare Star a little bit later, but I could see it going either way, and wouldn't mind opening with ice spells after several expansions of opening with fire spells instead.

[Voidmage]

Basically, the fact that we'll be refreshing AF3 with instant spells means that a refresh buys us 12.5 seconds instead of 15 seconds, but, having a whole extra refresh means that we're going to have a potential 15 + 12.5 + 12.5 = 40 seconds of AF3 time total, where before we had around 30. So I'm not at all worried about this increasing difficulty for newer or weaker players.

Apologies, I think my post was not written good enough or my english sucks more then I think.
That wasn't my point.

I agree that two instant fire casts will make it easier for new and casual players to stay in fire phase.
I also think though, experienced players will feel too railroaded on the fire rotation and that the whole experience will be far more clunky because of the nature of instant casts and the wait time after them.

Right now, Flare Star hits only a little harder than Despair, although that might change. I guess the question is whether A) fire opener lets you cast Flare Star under raid buffs B) ice opener lets you cast Flare Star under raid buffs (an ice opener contains like 11 GCDs before flare star, after all) C) a fight's length is such that going fire vs. ice actually changes how many Flare Stars you can cast all together. I'm guessing that not casting B3 or B4 makes up for casting your first Flare Star a little bit later, but I could see it going either way, and wouldn't mind opening with ice spells after several expansions of opening with fire spells instead.

I see. I didn't take raid buffs into consideration.

[Ferrinus]

I also think though, experienced players will feel too railroaded on the fire rotation and that the whole experience will be far more clunky because of the nature of instant casts and the wait time after them.

I see what you're saying. I think you've got a point, but it's not all downside. More instant casts mean more movement and more weaving opportunities, so throwing one can feel less active in one way (you're not even filling a cast bar, so it feels like nothing is happening while your GCD refreshes) but more active in another (you can reposition and use oGCDs without clipping). Personally I never felt frustrated or bored after using Thundercloud or Xeno, but it might be because I always build for spellspeed so my next GCD comes up very quickly.

There's also definitely going to be less truncation in the astral cycle, as having more refresh/mobility tools will mean that it's much, much rarer for someone to realize that, shoot, they are not going to be able to use all this MP, they need to just use Despair immediately and hope for better luck next cycle. It's also more rare, but proportionately more punishing to get into a situation where you have to cast Fire 1 just to keep Astral. So there's going to be less absolute variety in total spells cast from cycle to cycle, even though shuffling their sequence around is gonna be easier.

Flare gives no points for Flare Star. It's literally only Fire 4.

Flare gives you 3 pips on the Flare Star meter, but I strongly, strongly doubt it'll ever be worth it to use Flare on single target just to build up Flare Stars faster.

[Voidmage]

I see what you're saying. I think you've got a point, but it's not all downside. More instant casts mean more movement and more weaving opportunities, so throwing one can feel less active in one way (you're not even filling a cast bar, so it feels like nothing is happening while your GCD refreshes) but more active in another (you can reposition and use oGCDs without clipping). Personally I never felt frustrated or bored after using Thundercloud or Xeno, but it might be because I always build for spellspeed so my next GCD comes up very quickly.

There's also definitely going to be less truncation in the astral cycle, as having more refresh/mobility tools will mean that it's much, much rarer for someone to realize that, shoot, they are not going to be able to use all this MP, they need to just use Despair immediately and hope for better luck next cycle. It's also more rare, but proportionately more punishing to get into a situation where you have to cast Fire 1 just to keep Astral. So there's going to be less absolute variety in total spells cast from cycle to cycle, even though shuffling their sequence around is gonna be easier.

I spend to much time on the word truncation...

Yes, i agree that there will be less variables in fire phase but all in all these are all things that I liked about blm.
> timing your casts to squeeze everything out even at the last second
> the flow of fire phase
> using transpose and paradox in an emergency and even in standard rotation just then stepping into non standard real quick.
> managing thunderprog

All in all these are changes that go against everything I hold dear with this job, even more so as a crit blm.
There will be happy players but I won't be one of them and DT will be the point where i will finally drop it sadly.

Picto looks good right now but we will see.


On another note, enhanced flare also seems to be gone.

[Ferrinus]

Yes, i agree that there will be less variables in fire phase but all in all these are all things that I liked about blm.
> timing your casts to squeeze everything out even at the last second
> the flow of fire phase
> using transpose and paradox in an emergency and even in standard rotation just then stepping into non standard real quick.
> managing thunderprog

I think all this stuff basically remains, but with the chief difference that it's never an advantage to skip ice spells or have shorter fire/ice cycles, so while you still might be forced to do that by mistakes or mechanics, the challenge is always going to be about how well you can minimize a loss, rather than if you can squeak out a gain. I think we're going to end up making a lot of the same decisions under pressure, though. If you have to move and you're out of instants, you might throw a Thunder spell to get at least a little potency in even though you're clipping your DoT. If a boss is about to vanish or you're about to run out of timer due to previous movement mechanics or mistakes, you'll cut your astral cycle short with a swiftcast Despair and then charge up for the next one. Etcetera.

On another note, enhanced flare also seems to be gone.

Yes, I noticed that, too. I'm actually a little sad about no Enhanced Flare combined with an apparent drop in High-Fire II potency, because it just felt right to cast HF2 for damage and then use your last Umbral Heart on Flare, rather than using all your Umbral Hearts on Flare. Now it seems like HF2 is just for swapping stances and your damage cycle will always be Flare, Flare, Flare Star for groups of monsters.

[Voidmage]

I think all this stuff basically remains, but with the chief difference that it's never an advantage to skip ice spells or have shorter fire/ice cycles, so while you still might be forced to do that by mistakes or mechanics, the challenge is always going to be about how well you can minimize a loss, rather than if you can squeak out a gain. I think we're going to end up making a lot of the same decisions under pressure, though. If you have to move and you're out of instants, you might throw a Thunder spell to get at least a little potency in even though you're clipping your DoT. If a boss is about to vanish or you're about to run out of timer due to previous movement mechanics or mistakes, you'll cut your astral cycle short with a swiftcast Despair and then charge up for the next one. Etcetera.

Hmm, no here i have to disagree.

Timing our casts to the last second will no longer be needed because we always have the safety net of two instant casts to refresh the fire timer.
The flow of the firephase will be gone because of the wait times after the instant casts (at least on low spell speed).
UI Paradox is gone so that emergency tool is no longer there (and the worst thing is that with the removal the of that spell the "flare" of it is gone)
There is no thunderprog to manage any more as far as I can see.

Nonetheless these are just my opinions so whatever.
Thanks for the discussion though.

Yes, I noticed that, too. I'm actually a little sad about no Enhanced Flare combined with an apparent drop in High-Fire II potency, because it just felt right to cast HF2 for damage and then use your last Umbral Heart on Flare, rather than using all your Umbral Hearts on Flare. Now it seems like HF2 is just for swapping stances and your damage cycle will always be Flare, Flare, Flare Star for groups of monsters.

They managed to make fire 2 good in EW only to almost make it useless now in DT.
This here is the thing I don't get the most.