And the slow death of the RPG based battlesystem

[Sjol]

Another battle system that seems to be "missing" is any kind of reasonable build variance. Understandably it's difficult with multiple jobs sharing gear on the same character where that gear is also unique.

Stat priority on almost every job is:

Speed to preferred level
Critical Hit
Determination
Direct hit

It would be nice if there were more variations in BiS setups.

[Ggwppino]

However, I can't wait for a ffXVII online(?), where they finally apply a pure and serious action style with iframes, combos, dashes and frenzy.

I can't take any more of this gameplay skimmed to the bone to get closer to an action game, but failing miserably and resulting really slow and empty.

[ThorneDynasty]

However, I can't wait for a ffXVII online(?), where they finally apply a pure and serious action style with iframes, combos, dashes and frenzy.

I can't take any more of this gameplay skimmed to the bone to get closer to an action game, but failing miserably and resulting really slow and empty.

Funny you say that, this became my issue with the mainline FFs after 10, where they gradually and bafflingly tried to convert turn-based into some clunky version of an action game (I mean, honestly even way back ATB was the first symptom of it, a system with inherent problems Square never bothered ironing out). I think it was in 13 where I realized, switching to an all tank paradigm, that all I was doing was pressing like 3 buttons to "block", because the game was an RPG pretending to be an action game, and if I wanted that I''d just play an action-RPG where blocking takes exactly 1 button, like it should.

[Valence]

However, I can't wait for a ffXVII online(?), where they finally apply a pure and serious action style with iframes, combos, dashes and frenzy.

I can't take any more of this gameplay skimmed to the bone to get closer to an action game, but failing miserably and resulting really slow and empty.

The day they do that I'm definitely out of here.

Another battle system that seems to be "missing" is any kind of reasonable build variance. Understandably it's difficult with multiple jobs sharing gear on the same character where that gear is also unique.

Stat priority on almost every job is:

Speed to preferred level
Critical Hit
Determination
Direct hit

It would be nice if there were more variations in BiS setups.

The jobs accepting more build variance are... BLM and MNK.

See a pattern there?

[Shurrikhan]

Funny you say that, this became my issue with the mainline FFs after 10, where they gradually and bafflingly tried to convert turn-based into some clunky version of an action game (I mean, honestly even way back ATB was the first symptom of it, a system with inherent problems Square never bothered ironing out). I think it was in 13 where I realized, switching to an all tank paradigm, that all I was doing was pressing like 3 buttons to "block", because the game was an RPG pretending to be an action game, and if I wanted that I''d just play an action-RPG where blocking takes exactly 1 button, like it should.

Tbf, directing each of three party members to block would also have been... 3 buttons. And that's assuming you offered only a single "Block" action or the same new snapping functionality. That's not to say that XIII's combat was great, but if 3 buttons to perform 3 actions (each of 3 characters block) is to be its black mark, you had that either way... And while that might not be the degree of action gaming you personally would have preferred (being instead in uncanny valley territory, iyo), it was nonetheless something for some degree of reflex / mechanical execution, ICDs, etc., did matter due to actions being time-sensitive.

As for ATB --which you could in most of its early iterations toggle to allow infinite time between turns for anyways-- the core difference was simply the allowance for a Speed stat, allowing for the occasional two turns by a certain ally per one of a certain enemy or, on the flip side, a further allowance of obfuscation after enemy casts (multi-turn actions) from which to generate some additional threat without relying on removing *all* telegraphing. It just added still very much turn-based considerations onto the previously generally-fine-but-barebone structure.

If you want a turn based (MMO)RPG that can solely support varying forms of ±Damage, that's your prerogative, but let's not pretend that anything above the barest essentials is inherently a change for the worse.

And while I wouldn't want to see universally effective and frequently available iframes or the like, even on improved netcode, simply because of how badly such would render more "tactically-paced" tools redundant, for my part, its generally the convolution by which ±Damage is given so many redundant forms that most takes away from the experience, not there being timing- and positional-sensitivity in the same domain as decently elaborate decision making; the two tend not to be mutually exclusive but rather synergetic. Wholly sacrificing decision-making in place of reflex (one choice, but perfect execution required) or timing sensitivity in favor of decision making (no immersion, nor any standard timescale from which to manage multiplayer play) tends to be very feasible regardless; almost anything worthwhile in multiplayer will tend to be a hybrid of a sort, even if far from XIV's current blend (since its dipping shallowly into each isn't because of using both, but simply because it's terribly complacent).

[Ggwppino]

The day they do that I'm definitely out of here.

but let's analyze for a moment: ff14 it's a game where each new class has 4 spitting buttons and the old ones are slowly being dismantled, where the management of TP and mana and aggro has disappeared, where the RNG does not exist, where the tank no longer does tank things, where the main stat is the crit for 17 jobs out of 19, where the raid mechs involve a lot of movement, where the casts are stripped to the bone

We are already witnessing the fact that ff14 has completely overturned the approach, becoming more and more action over the years and less and less technical and tactical (if not exclusively in the raid mechanics), but for being an action game, this game does really sucks.

sucks for the simple fact that its GCD foundations undermine this desire to want to be action: making the gameplay too slow and with game mechanics too low to be an action, but right now with everything skimmed result also too simplistic to be technical and tactical.

[Valence]

You mentioned iframes and action games, and I do imagine you'd also include iframe dodges or block mechanics to the mix. Those, we don't have currently on XIV, and I don't want to deal with that in either way, shape or form as far as I'm concerned. Good for people that want to play dark souls online, but that's not me. I still prefer the hybrid monster we currently have.

[Ggwppino]

You mentioned iframes and action games, and I do imagine you'd also include iframe dodges or block mechanics to the mix. Those, we don't have currently on XIV, and I don't want to deal with that in either way, shape or form as far as I'm concerned. Good for people that want to play dark souls online, but that's not me. I still prefer the hybrid monster we currently have.

But look, don't get me wrong, if the designers of this game backtracked, I'd be a lot happier. But if they want an action game, they should do it well for heaven's sake.

[ThorneDynasty]

But look, don't get me wrong, if the designers of this game backtracked, I'd be a lot happier. But if they want an action game, they should do it well for heaven's sake.

They did that. Main criticism was the game's combat systems being oversimplified compared to its competitors and inspirations, which in retrospect is not surprising at all.

Doesn't really help to bring in Capcom veterans if the direction is terrified of gameplay depth.

[Ggwppino]

They did that. Main criticism was the game's combat systems being oversimplified compared to its competitors and inspirations, which in retrospect is not surprising at all.

Doesn't really help to bring in Capcom veterans if the direction is terrified of gameplay depth.

Do you mean ff16? I haven't played it as I don't have a PS5.
But yes, I know that Square turned to DMC designers for the combat system, but due to the fact that everything was too easy and lack of depth, the combat system was practically wasted (so I've heard, I'm putting my hands out).


But the main problem, as far as I'm concerned, is that the ff14 combat system is now a "hybrid monster" as Valence wrote and this brings many, too many other problems to the game. Designers should have to make up their mind