Crazy Idea: Split SCH from ARC and make it a 30+ job like HW

[Bloody_Kenny]

I kinda thought about that back when SMN rework was revealed for 6.0, and yeah, it makes sense. Currently, SCH is totally disconnected from ACN, and the original duality is lost. Now ACN is just an SMN-lite, the only tie-in with Scholar is having Physick and Res. Even the pet behaves differently. So in my mind, I saw them splitting SCH from ACN as its own thing. Assuming SCH gets a complete rework in 7.0. But alas, rework didn't happen, but I still see a potential for one in 8.0. This would be the perfect time to separate SCH from ACN/SMN.

[TaleraRistain]

If they did this split both should be available at 1 they are both ARR jobs and deserve that

As for WHM creating the wrong habits it’s to do with the fact WHM has no oGCD’s before 50 and the first one it gets to someone who doesn’t know how healers work “feels” like a panic button (benediction). Meanwhile SCH has the fairy to help and by 50 has 3 charges of lustrate, whispering dawn and illumination

You really don’t play shield healers proactively in anything besides high end content. SCH does a much better job of teaching healing habits at low levels than WHM does

You're forgetting Regen, which at lower levels negates having the WHM even have to cast a heal.

[BokoToloko]

The benefits for splitting the classes is nebulous at best, while the downsides are clear for all to see.

No one will care about coding if they'll have to invest double the time leveling both jobs with no guarantees of an improved gameplay.

And it's ironic coming from some supporting this, because SMN rework literally answered to feedback thrown in a similar light ("SMN should be about summoning, not about DoTs or a pet you summon once and then pretty much forget about afterwards. Pls change SMN") and nowadays several of you complain non-stop about SMN in the forums.

[Supersnow845]

When I think of “summoning” I don’t think of glorified flashy roomwide AOE’s then playing an elemental mage

SCH is ironically a better SMN than SMN is

[rawker]

Except not everyone are on that boat. I despise EW and soon DT SMN. And if they still push Serphism as it is, SCH.

But back on the topic, I am still opposed to the decoupling.

[BokoToloko]

When I think of “summoning” I don’t think of glorified flashy roomwide AOE’s then playing an elemental mage

SCH is ironically a better SMN than SMN is

And what you discredit as "summoning" has been the core gameplay of summoning for pretty much the bigger part of the FF franchise. Both in mainstay games, spin-off games (like FF Tactics) or jRPG from the same company like Bravely Default and Tactics Ogre.
One big flashy AoE or beneficial effect.

So yeah, it's not really hard to understand why SE and many fans would actually consider current iteration of summoning as true to the source because, in case the innumerable references to previous FF games haven't drilled the point, FFXIV is and always has been a FF theme park MMO. And one that, for the most part, draws from the older games not the newer ones.

[rawker]

so the gradual move from plain flashy to actual avatars fighting wth you (X, XI, XII, XIII,VIII to some extent) suddenly becomes disrepectful to the franchise?

[Supersnow845]

And what you discredit as "summoning" has been the core gameplay of summoning for pretty much the bigger part of the FF franchise. Both in mainstay games, spin-off games (like FF Tactics) or jRPG from the same company like Bravely Default and Tactics Ogre.
One big flashy AoE or beneficial effect.

So yeah, it's not really hard to understand why SE and many fans would actually consider current iteration of summoning as true to the source because, in case the innumerable references to previous FF games haven't drilled the point, FFXIV is and always has been a FF theme park MMO. And one that, for the most part, draws from the older games not the newer ones.

14 also has its own lore which modern SMN has trampled on which should superseded all references to any game

Regardless as rawker said below 10 11 12 13 as well as 15 and 16 do not remotely match modern SMN either

And like I said I don’t care what your favourite reference is 14’s lore comes first, if 14’s lore conflicts with your favourite version of x job then 14 wins out because almost every job has 10 different iterations. Or can I start asking for BLU to play like Clive

[BokoToloko]

so the gradual move from plain flashy to actual avatars fighting wth you (X, XI, XII, XIII,VIII to some extent) suddenly becomes disrepectful to the franchise?

Nowhere did I say it was disrespectful to the franchise. Don't put words in my mouth. That's just arguing in bad faith.

What I did say is that summons being flashy aoes was pretty much the norm for the most part (as in, in most FF games, not as in, that's how it MUST be and the ones who didn't aren't true summoners) because that's what it's been and, most people, being already FF players for the most part, would sign for the job with that imagery in mind. And what you cannot do is expect people suddenly think your version is the norm either. Because this works both ways.

And it's ironic supersnow doesn't consider current iteration summoning when, in the prior version, people were doing literally the same with that version. Specially in Heavensward, where the constant complain was that you ideally would only summon one Egi once for a fight and that's it. And, by Heavensward, the only option to go with other than when soloing was Garuda because of her interaction with DoTs. And there was also the very common problem of the pets ghosting players at every turn, which no one ( and I mean it) really liked at any time.

And, Supersnow... You had better explain why modern Summoner clashes with current lore before you try to tell me what's valid or not. Because, for the most part, the lore boils down to call down on Egis and use their powers against primals. Because only reason I can think of is just the story concerning Belias. That's it.

[rawker]

Your argument highly suggests so.

The fact that the relaunch made ACN, SMN, SCH as pet jobs is already a give-away that it is going to follow what was done with 10,11,12, and 13, with a twist, hence the Egis. I am not going to lie, I was not a fan of the egis, at first, but I thought, if they already gave us the ability to call on the primals at such an early phase of the game, then they'll easily run out of gimmicks... actually, they're doing it right now with how they only introduced Solar Bahamut for the entirety of DT. They wanted SMN to be more offensive compared to 11 where it was relegated as discount WHM with Avatars and that supportive aspect has been given to SCH.

Given how SCH evolved, it has proven to be closer to what a summoner is than the actual SMN job. Sure SCH has issues of its own, but if we're going to just focus on the pet, then it is still faithful to what a summoner is. The only thing missing to it is Enkindle.